Grief and perseverance
*Trigger Warning*
How to lose a sister to cancer and keep going: Amy shares her intimate experience with grief and loss of the love of her life Christine.
Amy and Melissa discuss grief, loss, bereavement, and acceptance in this episode of The Kindling Project. Amy brings the intersection of her professional and personal life.
They explore how losing a loved one changes the course of our path the minute they are gone. Death, dying, grief and loss have many painful emotions and feelings attached to this journey. Amy covers everything from unconditional love, acceptance, vulnerability, to family dynamics, and being present.
Amy gets real with her journey of losing her sister Christine on July 1, 2020. This honest, raw, and vulnerable conversation with Melissa opens up a space that Amy typically keeps private and tucked away safe and sound. We hope that if you have walked this path or are new to it, you will feel strength, courage, and support and remember you are not alone.
Amy has sat with hundreds of families as their loved one has passed while working with Gift of Life Michigan (organ and tissue procurement). In addition, Amy has spent countless years supporting families in crisis while showing up for them emotionally. Amy recommends https://whatsyourgrief.com/ as a resource for those who are grieving.
Learn more about The Kindling Project at our website: https://www.thekindlingproject.com/ and join our Facebook group for women looking for that extra kindling to start their next big fire! The Kindling Project - Ignite. The Kindling Project is sponsored by Memora, an experience design agency that creates memorable brand experiences. Memora is offering our listeners a FREE 30-minute brand consultation. Schedule yours now.
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Melissa: Hey friends. Welcome back to The Kindling Podcast. Today's episode may be a little heavy. So I wanna give you a trigger warning upfront that we're gonna talk about grief and loss and accept. My dear friend, Amy here just got back from a week saying goodbye to her sister, Christine. And we're gonna talk through that.
We're gonna walk you through. And from a professional aspect, we're gonna look at what does that look like for those of us at midlife, um, dealing with death, dealing with loss and
Amy: processing grief. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds good. Um, thank you for that. Thank you for that introduction. Um, yeah, it, it was, um, definitely.
Incredibly emotional. Um, and so I think that it's important to share, um, my experience with, with people. In our age group and, you know, not even necessarily in our age group, but, um, understanding that, um, grief and loss and death and dying, it's such a personal intimate journey for us. It really is. You know, it, it depends on really the, the relationship we had with that person, whether it was an, a very healthy relationship or an unhealthy relationship.
There's still going to be a lot that bubbles up to the surface, for sure. For.
Melissa: and for those of you, um, who don't know Amy and I, well, Uh, Amy's sister, Christine has a unique, um, you know, she has a unique place in our relationship because I met Christine before I met Amy mm-hmm . And so she sort of binds us together in an unusual way. And she was such a special, special person. Yes. Do you wanna talk a little bit about Christine?
Amy: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Ugh. So, so you asked me before we started, um, how I was today and today is a good day. Today is a good day for me. And I mean, what I mean by that is, um, I got up. I exercised, I taught yoga. I did some work.
I showered, I put on makeup. Um, I put on clean clothes and, and that to me is a good day when, when, um, I'm relating it to my grief because, um, that's not every day looks like that. No, no, not at all. And, and I'll share with all of you like that. Um, when I was out there, um, I know this isn't exactly answering your question.
Um, I only showered one time when I was in Wyoming, in Montana and Utah. And it wasn't because I was, um, it was because I just couldn't pull it together. Didn't have the bandwidth. Yeah, exactly.
Melissa: The processing of loss is sometimes takes precedent, overeating, oversleeping over bathing.
Amy: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's all consuming.
It is. It really is. So, um, my sister, Christine, she, um, she was, um, 52 years old. She passed away July 1st, 2020. So a year ago, this past July, uh, in a very quick nutshell, she was diagnosed with renal cell carcinoma at 40. She had a kidney removed and. , you know, by the grace of God, she was able to live another 12 years of being healthy and, um, no symptoms.
And, um, it, unfortunately the cancer came back with a vengeance, um, November of 2019 and she passed July. So it, it went really, it was very aggressive and, um, and sudden
Melissa: it felt, it
Amy: felt very sudden. Yeah. Yeah, it really did. And, and.
Melissa: It also has the, um, kind of unfortunate status of being a COVID death, which I know added a whole layer yes.
Of processing for people that lost loved ones that they couldn't really say goodbye to
Amy: properly. Right, right. Right. Did that
Melissa: affect your situation with Christine?
Amy: Definitely did. Um, so with the diagnosis, November of, um, 2019. I was able to go out there in early November. That's that's when the diagnosis came back.
So I was able to, so just for, um, for reference sake, my sister, um, and her family, um, have been in Gillette, Wyoming, uh, for close to 20 years now, Gillette, Wyoming, you might as well be in the middle of the moon because traveling there. It's plain, you know, it is not an easy place to get to. Right. They do have an airport you can fly into, but you have to go either through Denver or rapid city, South Dakota.
So it's, it's a whole thing. And there's only the flights that fly out. Um, it's never guaranteed. Mm-hmm so there's that whole emotional, um, stress mm-hmm am I gonna get there? Am I gonna get out of there? You know? Right. So, so to answer your question though, um, I was able to go November, December, January. I went every month for one week mm-hmm um, and then February was the last month I was able to go consistently because that's when COVID Michigan closed down.
March 13th, I believe mm-hmm . And so it was really, really, really tough. Not being able to go and see her during those months. Oh, I know. So it was March, April, may. In June. Um, and then, um, my brother, Tim and I, um, we were able to go out at the end of, of June and we were there about the last week and a half of her life.
So, um, yeah, it was, it was tough. And one of my trips, I ended up getting stuck in Denver. I was in the airport literally for two nights stuck in Denver. Oh man. So it was really, really stressful. It was just, yeah, it, it was, it was, there was that COVID um, It was, it was a part of it, you know, but working in healthcare during that time, there were so many stories of families that couldn't be with their loved ones.
They couldn't say goodbye. We had that in our family too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just, you know, death is, is one thing, but then you add not being able to have that physical connection. Mm-hmm and, you know, even for people that were literally down the street from their loved ones, they couldn't go see them or visit.
In the hospital. It was just, it'll be interesting to see how that all plays out in the future in terms of what, um, what grief, what, what it looks like for people, you know, cause we're still, we're still in the pandemic, so it's yeah. You know, we, we have, uh, I,
Melissa: I, I don't wanna get too far off of your story and Christine's story, but we have that in our family too.
My husband. Yeah, my husband lost his father and then two of his uncles. Oh, right. Kind of all in a six month time period. Yes. Yes. And, um, there was, uh, you know, not the kind of visitation wasn't available in the hospitals and then, uh, funeral services weren't available. Mm-hmm it does leave. Um, It does leave people without closure,
Amy: for sure.
Yes. Yes. Now it's interesting that you say the word closure, um, because my brother-in-law Scott and I have been talking about closure, um, because for me, closure is at least with my sister's passing closure. Doesn't. Feel possible right in this moment. Right. I'm only a year out. Right. And maybe it's not something you want in your life.
That's probably true. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You're probably right. Like, I'm like, I don't want to feel closure because then it's like, I'm not, I don't wanna close the door on her. So I'm kind of
Melissa: curious, like from a clinical perspective, I think folks might think because you are a therapist
Amy: mm-hmm and you've got, you know, decades of
Melissa: walking other people through grief and loss.
Um, you know, Where does the rubber hit the road for you of like what you say to people and how you guide other people. And then how do you tell yourself and how do you guide yourself through
Amy: this kind of thing? Mm-hmm , mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. Well, you can't be your own therapist. I presume. No, no, not at all. You know, it's, it's interesting that you ask that.
Um, because I do have years and years of experience working with people with grief and loss and death and dying and, and all different types of loss and trauma and all that kind of stuff. Um, And I did, I did go through, um, death and dying with my, my grandmother and my mom. And, um, it was, it was different.
It was different, um, in a sense of, um, being able to walk through it, um, you know, When I was, when I was with my, um, with, with my mom's death, with my, my grandma's death, I, during that time I was, um, really, you know, I was, I, I was, um, using drugs and alcohol mm-hmm during that time, I, you know, there were definitely times I was abusing 'em, um, but still functioning at a high level.
Right. You know, so I was able to really, um, Numb myself in different ways. You know, it was a very different time in my life. This was 20 over 20 years ago. Right. And that really wasn't an option this time. You had to feel your feelings. Yes. Yes. So it was complete, um, authentic. Um, it's still is it's, it's true.
Authentic pain and grief, you know, and, um, , you know, a sister it's losing a sister or a sibling is really it's another level, you know, and, and, and they all have the same variables. Um, but you know, anybody that knows the relationship with my sister, I mean, she really, I just describe her as always the love of my life, you know, just, yeah.
You know, just this light. And, um, and so, uh, it, you know, it's almost as if there's moments, I don't, I Don. Know how to, to describe the, the, the pain, but I know it's real, that's the thing it's, it's real. And what I do know today that I have, that I didn't have with the loss of my grandma and my mother is that, that I know in my heart that I'm okay.
You, um, you know, I, it makes me, yeah, it makes me feel better. Is that like a, you know, I know that's like, get your Kleenex out. Um, and. I didn't always feel okay. You know, I didn't always, I didn't always feel okay. And, and what I mean when I say, okay, is that that I can do this. I can go forward in my life. I, I, I, I don't have to, um, to stop and to stop.
And, and I'm not, I'm not for, you know, just, just for, again, for reference. Um, I've never. Thank God I've never been suicidal or, you know, I've definitely had depression and anxiety and things like that. Um, I've never gone had that type of, um, mental illness where I'm so desperate. Mm-hmm um, but it's a different, it's a different desperation today in, in regards to, um, just.
wrapping my head around it. Right. You know, for me too, I
Melissa: mean, just, um, Really just an acquaintance of Christine's. I, I think in, in real life, I may have only seen her a couple times and, uh, had a little bit of an internet relationship with her, but there is sort of a eality to losing a
Amy: vibrant 52 year old mm-hmm mm-hmm um, definitely as
Melissa: a mother, you know, she has three children here that
Amy: still need her.
Yes. Yes. And. Um,
Melissa: you know, it hits so close to home. Mm-hmm because she's our age and she looks like us. Yes. And she, yes, her life looks like ours. Right, right. I do think that there is, um, just sort of an inability
Amy: to process how, uh, how fragile and temporary life is.
Melissa: Yes. And when, when a, when a beautiful 52
Amy: year old mm-hmm loses her life.
Yeah. Uh, that's a big
Melissa: part of it. Is
Amy: just a shock. Yes. The acceptance. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And, and I'm glad you brought up acceptance because that, you know, acceptance is something that I've really come to terms with over the years, um, and for different, for different reasons. And we can talk about that on another podcast.
Um, but what I would tell, um, Christine is that, um, we don't have to like this diagnosis. We don't, we're not gonna like it. No, we, we know we're not, but we have to practice acceptance. Mm-hmm we have to practice acceptance because if I know for me, I've learned over the years that if I'm not. If I'm not practicing acceptance, acceptance to me is an action step.
I can't just sit back and go. Yeah, I'm just gonna accept that. And, you know, um, we'll just see, see what happens to me. It's something I have to take action, which means that, you know, I can, I can talk a little bit about what it actually looks like, but what I would tell her is, okay, we have to accept it because if we don't, then we're gonna stay stuck.
Right. And if we stay stuck, Then we're not gonna be able to move forward with whatever the outcome is. So where do you think? I mean, Personally,
Melissa: and as a professional, where is acceptance in the sort of chain of grief and loss? Is that something that you deal with upfront or that you're always dealing with?
Mm-hmm , that's something that really, uh, I know you said you're not seeking closure, but is that something that's at the end
Amy: of the, yeah, that's a good question process. At least for me, um, it acceptance is it's all part of the journey, you know? Um, it's, it's so hard to describe because there's a lot of layers to it.
Mm-hmm um, so for example, um, A first, first time getting a diagnosis, you know, whether a person passes away with, with a, a long term illness or an accident, or maybe a couple weeks or a month or two, maybe suddenly from COVID. Right, right. And maybe
Melissa: a lot of people. Still kind of trying to accept
Amy: that reality.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that is still, still our reality. So that acceptance part at this is this again is my experience, but this is the space I am in right at this moment. Mm-hmm . So it's because professionally working with people personally, there's a lot of people that don't want to deal with what's in front of them.
Right. You know, and I get it right. I, oh my gosh. It would be great to be able to turn my head and walk away, you know, but I'm not wired that way. I am. I am that person that is running into the burning building. You are, you know, I know that, you know, and so that's how I, that's how I. I face the, the adversity in my life is I am going to do it head on, you know, I'll, I'll just do a quick side note.
It's funny, you know, our friend, Amy, um, you know, she just loves how I have something, you know, I had, um, my tonsils for years, I was getting, um, strep throat and stuff. And so I went and had my tonsils out and she she's like, how can you just like, go, you have symptoms, you get it taken care of where she just is.
I'm not gonna do that where we just have different ways. Right. You know, for me, it's just head on. Right. And, and it's not one way or the other isn't better at all, but I know for me, in order to live, mm-hmm, , it's gotta be straight on, you know? Right. And so, and you like to have an answer? Yeah, I do. I don't wanna be ambiguous a path of, um,
Melissa: You know, a straight path I'm picking one, I'm sticking
Amy: with it till it's resolved.
Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. Now here's the thing, though. Those paths are really never straight. True. True. Those paths have cliffs. They have boulders, they have landmines, they have landmines. They have, um, husbands and laundry. Yeah, exactly. I mean, my gosh, if it was straight, that would be amazing, but it's not, it's not.
Um, so just in that moment, that first part is that, okay, this is what it is today. Right. Okay. And so then there's that acceptance of, okay. I'm I'm in this. And then as news comes or things get worse or we have highs and lows mm-hmm , it's that acceptance that this is the space that I'm in. And did you feel that
Melissa: Christine came to a level of acceptance of what was happening to her and to her body?
Um,
Amy: this last year, definitely. She did. She did. Yeah. She knew. She knew. And is that
Melissa: something that you see, um, is that more or less common that people
Amy: accept
Melissa: their diagnosis or they accept how much time they have left or
Amy: they're in denial? Mm-hmm , I'm just curious if, if you have a sense of, yeah, I don't have the data at all, but I do know from working in the, in the profession and, um, with, with my mom, my mom unfortunately died at a young age as well at 54 and she had everything laid.
She was a single mom mm-hmm so she had everything completely laid out and she, she was not leaving us with any loose ends mm-hmm . Um, and, um, same with Christine because she learned from my mom. Right. You know, she learned, um, but there are absolutely people that are not willing to accept, um, death. Which is understandable.
I mean, my gosh, it's painful. Yeah. It's painful. Who wants to go there? I mean, even people, um, with C who didn't believe in COVID, who were actually dying of COVID mm-hmm . Didn't believe they were dying of COVID. Oh yeah. You know, so that denial can go and that's a whole other conversation. But to answer is, is that, that, that acceptance, it, it really, it's not a given, it's not a given at all and it it's work.
It sounds like it's a lot of work. It's, you know, it's a lot of, um, introspection mm-hmm within, within, because you know, I wasn't gonna get answers. Um, So, let me just say this regarding my sister. And I know that, you know, there's lots of different relationships that people have with their siblings. Um, but my sister has always been my keeper in a lot of ways.
You know, she always made the right decisions. She was very much of sound mind. , um, responsible, you know, the oldest and, um, of my twin and I, and. , you know, it was one thing when my mom passed, but then my sister it's like, well, wait a minute, like, this is this, now you're in charge. Yeah. Like this is the gatekeeper, right?
Like, wait, wait a minute. You know? And, and thank God I, I, you know, have, have had 49 years under my belt of living. Um, and, but. It that what it feels like is the whole bottom just dropped out that that's how I can describe her. Her being gone is, and I don't know if you ever remember or, or rode, um, the rides, um, Especially at Cedar point, there was that round and you'd like be up against the wall.
Oh yeah. The centrifugal force. Is that what it was called? So more, it
Melissa: spins you that you then the floor drops. Yes. And you kind of stick to the wall and
Amy: you wanna, PKE your guts out? I some
Melissa: kind of some physics that I
Amy: can't explain. No, no. Or should you, I mean, talk about wanting to like puke your guts out.
Right. Um, but that is, that is how I have felt. Right. The whole floor has just dropped out. Yeah, right. Yeah. That is how, that is how I felt. So I, you know, I think one of the reasons we're, we're talking about this, so with COVID with grief and loss, what's happened is, um, a couple weeks ago, my, my niece, um, Christine's oldest sister, or excuse me, Christine's oldest daughter, Emma, who's this incredible extension, bright light of her, um, essentially planned a Memorial for her in Wyoming, in.
And so, um, there were several people that came, not everybody because not everybody's still traveling. Right. You know, and where she lives. Um, oh boy, it's different out there in terms of, um, C and how it's impacted people. And it's a very different experience from where we are here in Michigan, more metropolitan area.
Yes. Yes. And out there it was, you know, things were closed down for two or three weeks and things were went back. Yeah. A red state blue state kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah. So it was a very different, um, different, um, approach to, to COVID. And so, um, I'm, I'm telling you this, because there were, this is, this is another part.
This goes into the, the tail part of the acceptance. So everything felt really different going there because first time back mm-hmm without her there, you know? And she had been out out west, um, for out there for 20 years in Gillette. They were in Montana for 10 years before that. Right. Um, so. Again, it's all these, these little things that are very subtle mm-hmm
Melissa: well, remember so subtle.
I saw you, I think the week before you left for Gillette and you had, um, been informed that you were gonna be staying in a hotel, not at, uh, your
Amy: sister's house. Yes, yes. And that, that was a hard moment for you that you weren't going back to the house. Yes. Yes. Because the house.
Melissa: One of the big things
Amy: that's left of her.
Right. Right, right. And, and how did you process that? Oh gosh. Was that hard? Yes. Yes. And you know, that's the thing, I'm, I'm a big baby, you know, still, even being, we all are right. We are. And I'm like, no, I wanna sleep in her bed. I wanna sleep next to her. I wanna, but that would obviously be very odd sleeping next to her husband at this point.
Melissa: that would've been a little awkward for your
Amy: husband. Sleep in the middle. Um, but it, yeah, and, and I was very honest with, with her husband, Scott and, and not so much Emma about it. Um, and that's the part is like, I have to be the adult. Right. You know, and, and, and it really worked out, um, because, you know, I had the boys and my husband and my brother and his kids and, you know, we had it, it worked out.
Yeah. Um, but having to accept the fact that I'm not going back to her house, when I, of course I spent all the majority of my time there, but things were different about the house. Right. You know, things were different. She wasn't there anymore. She wasn't there the rooms. I mean, it it's definitely not have been a complete overhaul, but being there was really, really, um, just, it was, it was tough.
It was tough. But I will tell you the hardest part in terms of the actual, um, just the heart wrenching heart exposed rawness was seeing her headstone. Oh, yeah. So, so my brother and I, and our kids, um, my husband, we pulled up to the cemetery. Now. It is beautiful where she is. It doesn't even feel like we're in Gillette, it's, she's up on this hill and can oversee.
And it's very, very peaceful. Um, and you know, pretty much when we got into town, Tim and I wanted to go to the, to the grave site and, um, gosh, Pulling up there was just be it's it made it so much more real. Yeah. You know, just seeing her, her last name there. And boy, I just really went into this very, um, primitive sobbing and just holding the, the, um, the headstone, you know, wanting to touch.
her name mm-hmm , you know, um, and you know, I did this in front of my brother, his kids and, um, and my kids, you know, um, and it just, it happened, you know, and, and, and. Everybody was crying and, and, you know, especially it hears back to the COVID, none of them were able to physically say goodbye to her. yeah, that's heartbreaking, you know, none of them, and this was like their aunt, you know, they were like obsessed with her as she was with them.
Yeah. You know, so they, that was really hard for the boys and Elizabeth, Dan, and you know that and Sean that, and, and, and so. You know, we, we sat around the grave for quite a while and talked and told stories and, and sobbed and it, and everybody has their experience. Yeah. Is where I'm going with this, you know, um,
Melissa: just a thought that comes to my mind to, you know, maybe, uh, I don't know how relevant this is, but in recent years, I have really kind of changed my tune on grave sites.
Okay. I think, uh, I think maybe cuz when you're young, you're invincible and you don't understand death and I hadn't experienced a lot of loss mm-hmm I had rather a rather
Amy: maybe callous or
Melissa: judgemental,
Amy: uh, feeling about,
Melissa: well the people aren't there. Why are they taking up the land? Yeah, I mean, I sort of.
Um, unsympathetic or inexperienced view of the, how meaningful a grave site is. And in the last couple years with the loss that we've had yeah. And watching other family members return to the graves and care for the graves, I do now understand it almost 50 something. I definitely didn't understand in my twenties and thirties.
Amy: Yeah. Yeah. About
Melissa: ritual and about mm-hmm, having. That Memorial or that site or that place and whether or not it's an official headstone or it's a tree you planted or it's a, a bench in a park. Right, right. But there is some sort of, um, healing that takes place by having a ritual, a ceremony, an object. Yes.
A place. Yes. Um, That I understand now in a way that I hadn't understood before mm-hmm mm-hmm and then when you describe how meaningful that was.
Amy: Yeah. Yeah. It just confirms for me,
Melissa: you know, there, there is a reason for thousands of years, maybe tens of thousands of years, why people have been marking grave
Amy: sites.
Right, right. It's part of. um, the process. It is, it is it's part of the acceptance. It's part of the grief mm-hmm and yeah, you're right. It doesn't have to be a, a grave site. It could be like you said, a bench, it could be a tree. It could be a, a hotel. I mean, it could well, a token or a piece of jewelry or something.
Yeah.
Melissa: But there is sort of. And, uh, you know, as humans, it seems we do have an attachment to
Amy: the physical world.
Melissa: Yes. And, and when somebody's physically not here to assign them to a physical object, mm-hmm, , it's actually, um, Much more human than I really was in touch with until
Amy: mm-hmm mm-hmm quite recently.
Yeah. Well, you know what? That's good. I'm glad you didn't have that understanding until recently. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, that's, that's another way of
Melissa: looking at it is that I just hadn't had
Amy: enough experience with loss.
Melissa: Some of the, um, the two closest people in my life that I lost were my grandparents and I lost both of them when I lived in another state.
Okay. And. Um, there's something strange that happens when you're told that somebody's
Amy: gone. Yes.
Melissa: But in your mind, there's still where
Amy: you left them. Mm-hmm mm-hmm yes. And even to this day, when I drive by my grandma's house, she's still
Melissa: in there in my mind. Mm-hmm in some sort of, uh, maybe that's a form of not accepting.
Um,
Amy: she is where I left her. Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. I, I, I have to respectfully disagree. I, I mean, the fact that you feel her feel her energy or there's something of her in there, I think that's okay too. You know, just knowing that that's where you identify her with yeah. With that space and, and. You know, this is a whole other discussion.
Um, but one of the things that gives me comfort is even though I don't feel her the way I felt, I feel my mom is, I know she's still around. Right. So that's where, you know, again, whole other conversation. Um, but that is, that is what gives me the some light in some space, you, I feel
Melissa: very strongly that she's still
Amy: around.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm I feel like she's a thread between you and I. Yes. Yes. And, um, she really had a special. She did you know that that doesn't go out right? And it's funny, not ha ha funny, but you know, with you and I, you've been doing things that remind me of her, you know, like with what you wear, you know, you and I have different styles and Christine and I had very different styles.
Right. And she would wear floral and just, it just it's, it gives me comfort because I'm seeing things that I wouldn't have seen before. And. That's where I really want to hone the message in, um, is that. Part of part of what happens as a result of going through grief, finding acceptance is that at least for me is coming into another space where there's, there's new.
There's now new discoveries of things that I didn't experience when she was still here. So I. Still now that now that I'm, I'm continuing to move through her through the acceptance. I know this is a little abstract in thinking, but with knowing that I'm okay and that, okay, this is where I'm at. I'm able to grow and, and experience different, different things because I'm in that acceptance spot.
Right. See what I'm saying? Because I do, if I was stuck. right then I'm stuck. I'm not moving forward. I'm I'm stuck. Right? And that's where people stay. Mm-hmm not just with grief, not just with loss, anger, anger, trauma. We could go on and on and on, but that's where people stay stuck and I don't wanna stay stuck.
Today? No, you know, so because I'm moving through this, this acceptance as I continue, I can see, oh gosh, that's so cute. My sister would've worn a floral shirt. Mm-hmm or a skirt too big for her. , you know, , you know, things like that, like, let's go get you something, you know, like that kind of thing. So, right.
It's. That's where I know that it's okay. You know, things are okay. Although very like it's, it's painful too. Yeah. You know, but we can have those, those things you pain is okay. Yeah. Yeah. It is. Pain is okay. I
Melissa: think that that's a really important lesson here and I think that's why I wanted to have this conversation today is, um, so many people experience pain, myself included mm-hmm
Amy: and shove it.
Oh, and don't feel it. Amen
Melissa: sister, and, you know, eat it away or drink it away or sex it away. Right. Or shop it away. Yep. And, um, you know, it's an important part of being human. It's important part of being alive here. Yes. Yes. And by us having this conversation, we're honoring Christine mm-hmm we're honor.
Your loss in pain and, um, the sadness I feel about it, but hopefully for anybody else listening that we're creating space, mm-hmm to have difficult conversations. Yes. Um, and maybe the conversations that you can't have with everybody in your life mm-hmm , and maybe there's nobody in your life that you can have this conversation with, but it's okay.
Yes. Yes. It's okay. To feel pain to for however long
Amy: you need to. Right. Right. Now, let me say this. Um, in addition to that, that one thing that I've learned over time is that feelings are temporary. they, are they, you know, am I going to be sad about her, her passing? Yes. Is it always gonna be at that same volume?
You know, I describe feelings as volumes. Is it turned up to a 10, is it at a three? Is it a two? No, it's not always gonna be at a 10 mm-hmm maybe, maybe once in a while, it'll go to a 10, but sometimes it's at a one or a two. Right. So just reminding, you know, myself and others that. because oftentimes I, I think especially for, for at least for my experience as a woman, you know, giving myself permission that, okay, I'm in this space, but it's only in this moment.
It doesn't have to be 10 years from now or two weeks from now. This is where I'm at right now. And it's okay. To be in this uncomfortable space, because like you said, and that's, that's what I did for many years is not wanting to feel. So it's going to be using everything outside of healthy coping mechanisms to not feel right.
You know? And, and so. just, just reminding myself and, and people, other people that are on the journey of, um, of, of loss and, and things like that, that this is temporary. This is, these are temporary, you know, just because we feel a certain way doesn't mean that we're gonna always feel that way. And it's okay.
It is, it is. And, you know, back to the very beginning of the, of the shower. Now I will say that after the Memorial, a couple days later, Tim and I took our kids, we had this great van. It was a 15 person van. Wow. We, we ended up calling it our prison van because that's what it looked like. And just piled
Melissa: these kids.
And that's that's when
Amy: you wanted to put half the occupants yes. Oh my gosh. We ended up going to Cody, Wyoming. We went to red lodge, Montana. We went to Yellowstone. We went to Moab, Utah, and you know, my brother and I are. Very different in how we travel. And we stayed at, um, he planned everything. So we stayed at the Koa, um, camps and the, there were these great cabins, but it was very, um, let's call it simple living.
Yeah. very rustic. Um, and the shower. So I did have a little bit of, of slack of, of a good reason why not to shower and things like that because Uhhuh these kids, you know, they were very clean, but you know, I'm not taking a shower in a unisex bath, public bath. Yeah, no, I just nice. Yeah, I did all that and you know, staying in hosts, I love to do that stuff when I was younger, but now I've, I do like the finer things, you know, Um, yeah, it was just funny cuz I'm like, oh my gosh.
The point is though, is that even though we have these feelings and like you said, it is okay. The one message I really wanna hit home. And I say this because I have to hear it is that I still have to take care of myself. I still have to go in. I still have to show up for myself, for my kids, for my husband, for my clients, for my degree, all these things I still have to show up.
So that's why, you know, having these conversations with you, talking to a professional, um, maybe getting in a, a group where people really understand, because each loss is different, you know, whether it. Sibling a spouse, a grandparent, a child, a friend, a neighbor, you know, there's all different types of loss.
So it's really important for people to know that they don't have to do the journey by themselves. You know, that is advice really, really important that people understand that. Um, maybe we can put some resources. That's a great idea. Yes, I have some great, great grief resources that we can put at the end of this, for sure.
Melissa: Okay. Yes, we look for those. Yes. We'll get those together.
Amy: Yeah. And, you know, thanks for sharing. Thank you. Thank you for asking about that. I'm, you know, I really feel better in terms of just sharing that and, and I hope that, um, it, it inspires people to know that. You know that it's okay. We, you know, like Glennon says we can do hard things, you know, and I know my sister used to say that to me, like it's, you know, we can do hard things and, and just, you know, just move through it.
Don't get a choice. That's true. That's true. I mean, we, let me, let me just summarize this, cuz this has been one of my mantras is. and I teach this in yoga often and, and with my clients as well, is that we don't have choices of what happens around us. So for example, I have no choice in the fact that my sister had this cancer and, and it just, it just went in a way that, that we would've never, ever chosen.
Okay. No, no choice. But what I have a choice today is how I'm gonna react and how I'm gonna respond. You know, just like. um, I could take that, that, uh, thought pattern and apply it to anything. So I can't control what's around me, but what I can control is how I react and how I respond. And so, as a result, I, I will give myself permission to have some down days or down mornings or whatever.
So it's, it's, it's my decision on how I wanna react to things. That's where your power lives. Yes. that's so true. That's so true. Yes. Yep.
Melissa: That's really the only power any of us ever have.
Amy: Yep. Yep. So that's, that's definitely gonna be our, our next topic is talking about where that power lies within ourselves, you know?
So thank you so much for asking and, um, thank, thank you so much for sharing. Now we're gonna create space for the tiny fire inside that needs fuel and fanning. Today's kindling is about acceptance. Acceptance is not something we have to like, in fact, we will more than likely not like it, but it is something that we have to move through.
We have to pick ourselves up and take action. Some examples of action include. Addiction, perhaps you're drinking too much or you're eating too much or shopping too much. Reach out to a friend who's sober, clean out your pantry, close your credit card, perhaps you're in a toxic relationship. Reevaluate. Is this the kind of relationship that you wanna be in?
Speak your truth, work a job. Is this job elevating? Is it where you want to be? If it's draining, maybe it's time to resign, acceptance.