Power means something different for women
Finding the power within ourselves. What can power mean when we want to reevaluate and get real with ourselves about changing the narrative of our story?
In this episode of The Kindling Project, Amy and Melissa discuss the meaning of power and power vs. empowerment.
Power is something we feel, experience, want, reject, and crave. Women experience power or the lack of it throughout a lifetime. Personal power is highlighted and drilled down through this exploration of what it means and how it truly shows up for us. From this discussion, speaking our truth and speaking with intention leads us to feelings of power. Suggestions are explored on how to claim our power or take it back, especially if we have freely given it all away.
Learn more about The Kindling Project at our website: https://www.thekindlingproject.com/ and join our Facebook group for women looking for that extra kindling to start their next big fire! The Kindling Project - Ignite. The Kindling Project is sponsored by Memora, an experience design agency that creates memorable brand experiences. Memora is offering our listeners a FREE 30-minute brand consultation. Schedule yours now.
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Amy: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to kindling podcast with Amy and Melissa. So nice to see you and to be back at it. Melissa, thank you for being here. And I'm so glad we get to spend some time together. It's funny when you and I, um, are just chatting, whether we're doing errands or we're walking or whatever we're doing, I'm like, this is a podcast right here.
Melissa: So I feel that way too. I think that the difference between the podcast and us heading out for green smoothies and a walk is really almost no difference. Yes. We've just decided to share our conversations. Um, with. With the world and with people we care about yes. And with others who might, um, might benefit in some way.
Amy: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, you know, something, I know you're not there yet. Um, I'm little bit, a little bit older than you. Um, but having turn like a year. Yeah. Having turned 50 in December. Um, there's definitely, uh, a new sense of, um, empowerment, um, that, that I have experienced. And I know you're, you're definitely, um,
Melissa: yeah, you know, you're in the real life I 50 coming there's something, uh, almost, uh, Earth shattering about 49 mm-hmm it, it it's, um, I've had this feeling since I turned 49, a couple months ago of this is the end of this decade.
Yeah. I need to wrap it up. Right. And I also need to think about the next decade mm-hmm um, and I haven't ever really felt that way about birthdays. I haven't ever really particularly felt old or felt, uh, self-conscious about turning 30 or 40 or 45, but there is something about. Creeping up on 50. That makes me feel like, um, it's time for an assessment.
Yeah. Yeah. Where have I been? What have I learned? Where am I going? And, um, I'm surrounded by women and men. Um, all of my peers are, you know, around this age now. and I just see it. I see. So clearly. Yes. Yes. And I wouldn't exactly call it a midlife crisis. I don't really like that phrase mm-hmm but it is the midlife kind of assessment.
It is. Yeah. It's an urgency now. Right, right. We're not fucking around.
Amy: Right. That's so true. that's yeah. It's so true. It's like, we are here. You know, and, um, one of the, you know, things that we often talk about is, is our own power and our own, um, ability to make decisions. And that's what we're gonna talk about today.
Um, we're gonna talk about, um, what that really means in terms of that, um, that power within that ability to have that insight, to have that emotional intelligence that. Wow. I have survived a DEC or what, how many decades? 5, 5, 5, 5 decades. Right? That's the thing. I'm not a mathematician. Yeah. You know, it's.
Wow. I, I, you know, looking back like I have, and you, we have really experienced some, some pretty intense, um, and incredible things in life. Um, and at this, at this stage, it's, it's, there's a lot of clarity that has come into play. Right. You know, and that's, that's something that, that we're gonna talk about today is what that looks like for us.
And. You know, we, we certainly can't speak for our generation for generation X. Um, but I do know many people in, in our age group now that are really having the same type of awakening. Mm-hmm , um, it's certainly different than, um, our mother's 50, for sure.
Melissa: It looks a lot different than my mother's 50 or my grandmother's
Amy: 50.
Oh gosh. Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, there's this thing where you're comparing the golden girls. The show, I don't know how old the golden girls were in their show. Cuz that was early nineties. Maybe mm-hmm but they looked. Like grannys, I mean, beautiful grannys but grannys nonetheless.
Melissa: Yeah. I think I saw a meme recently that compared them to some current 50 year old really.
And, um, it was shocking. It was shocking. Yes, yes, yes. And maybe it had something to do with styles. I mean, nobody's doing a roller set anymore. Right. Where, uh, although I'm all for captains, if we wanna go back to Mumu and captains, I'm in, Hey,
Amy: I will wear those around the house. No problem. You know, and, and I.
I, I don't want to imply to be disrespectful because I love the golden girls. Oh, me too. You know, but we're, we're a different golden girls. Um, yeah. You know, it's a different, we have a lot more opportunity. Um, we of, of, um, Opportunity professionalism, you know, all these things. I think just social, um,
Melissa: socially more is expected of us too.
That's true. That's true. I mean, uh, you know, thankfully that, that we still have a lot of life left in us. Yes. That we still have kids to finish raising. Then we have parents to take care of. Yeah. And then we have. To somehow say stay attractive or at least another 10 or 15 years at least. I mean, there's some social expectations.
I think that, yeah, that other 50 year olds and other generations haven't had on them for better, for worse.
Amy: Right, right. Yeah. That's, that's so true. So, so how do, how do we actually apply that to. the power within the, what is the power within, what does that look like? Is it something that it looks a certain way or is it something that we feel, um, and, and I'll give an example.
Um, oftentimes when I'm teaching yoga, I'll tell my students, these are postures that you've probably done, you know, hundreds, thousands of times. Um, and it's not something that it's not something that a person. Necessarily C you know, when I started yoga, um, however many years ago, 15 years ago, it was all about how I looked, right.
How I looked to me, right. To what did this posture look like to me? Could I balance, could I stand on one foot? Could I get on my head at handstands, whatever, but today it's not about how my posture looks or how my power looks. It's how I feel. So it's a, it's, it's something in, it's an, it's an internal feeling.
Melissa: I really relate to that. I feel like, um, you know, you're an OG Yogi, as you say, and you've been doing it for a long time, consistently more consistently than I have, but I have also dabbled in yoga for 30 years on and off. Absolutely. And, um, You know, I'm, I'm the touchier feeler of us. Right. Mm-hmm like, I cry easy.
I cry during yoga. It's always kind of been about feelings for me. Absolutely. That's sort of, um, I feel like, uh, I spend most of my life holding it in holding it in. Yes. Keeping, keeping my shell on yeah. Um, not crying in a meeting. Uh, and there's something about those postures about getting to that mat about laying down that's opening, you know, that puts a crack in your armor.
And, uh, uh, it's, it's, I'm grateful for that. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm, that feeling that comes with yoga because I spend so much time keeping it in and it's just, you know, 30 minutes or 45 minutes, or it's maybe that last 90 seconds. Right, right. Um, where you let a crack in a little sunlight in
Amy: yes. Yes. It's you know, um, my, my chair of my dissertation, she describes it.
Just moving the needle slightly, you know, we're just moving the needle in, in a little bit of a direction. Um, and that's what. that's what that power within. Um, I feel like there's a book called the power within there probably
Melissa: is. And hopefully, I, I, I assume that we are paraphrasing always other ideas that we've absorbed from the society or books we've read right.
Or talks we've heard. Yes, of course. So nothing we say here, I'm sure is completely original. We're just sharing it from our perspective. Absolutely. We didn't. That's probably important to say. Yeah, definitely. Because you might later get pointed out to you that , that we're paraphrasing all kinds of things that we've absorbed from, right.
Culture.
Amy: Well, you and I. Love to read. We love to learn and, and it's really, it's an evolution of, right. This is nothing original, right? We, we, we are not the first people to talk about the power within, or, you know, mm-hmm and, and let let's define power. Right.
Melissa: It's I, I think we talked about this on another podcast.
Um, when we were talking about. Grief and loss and that how the only power you have is, is your ability to respond to the situation. Yes. Yes. When you
Amy: brought that up, that was huge. And I
Melissa: think that there are some, um, kind of famous quotes about, you know, that space between, um, your, your reaction and your response mm-hmm or your stimulus and your response.
Um, but it's so true and it's worth repeating and it's. Paraphrasing and it's worth a whole other podcast, even if there's dozens of them on the subject, because power is something as women that I find, uh, is a hard thing for us to reach for and to hold onto. Yes. And to feel
Amy: entitled to.
Melissa: good point. I know I find myself, um, after more than a decade of running a business and being a CEO of a business and managing huge projects and, um, a staff and clients and millions of dollars that I still often, uh, am very, very tempted to downplay.
any power differential associated with that? Mm-hmm , mm-hmm that somehow I stumbled into it. Right, right. Or I'm just creative or I'm just trustworthy or people just like me or people just wanna offload the responsibility. But, um, I have garnered a certain amount of power in my adult life that isn't even always comfortable to claim.
Amy: Yes. Yes. That is so true. And, and I feel that I feel that when I'm with you, you know, when I'm with you and I'm introducing you to people, I just want to be very bold about don't let this like little, not there's nothing little, but you're, it's, it's, it's subtle. You're subtle. You know, you're, you're that you're.
That silent storm, you know, like you're, don't let, don't let you fool anybody that you're just, you know, someone who is creative or started this out of a, you know, your back, your backyard or something, you know, like you are. Very very smart and powerful and successful. And I'm very proud of that for you.
Thank you. You know, and I want people to know, like this, this, isn't just some side hustle that you, that you've been doing for all these years. This is big stuff. So I'm like, come on girl. Like, I just wanna like shout from the rooftops, like you are an absolute badass. And so it is that claiming and, and holding onto it, you know?
Um, and. You know, the entitlement, you know, we, we could really look at that. And it's interesting that you use that word because to me, it's about, you've earned this, you've earned this space. Nobody just handed you this, this multimillion dollar successful company. You literally brought it from the ground up.
it's
Melissa: true. It's true. But I, I, um, I hear it and I can say it sometimes, but there is a kind of cognitive dissonance for me. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm and you know, maybe it is, I'm very invested in sort of a sweet, you know, little house on the Prairie, uh, vibe that I may have. Yeah. You know it, and, and I, I think that, um, , you know, that also works for me in some way mm-hmm, , mm-hmm or has worked for me, you know, the culture has rewarded me for that aspect of, you know, being myself.
Yes. Yes. But I am at a point where I'd like to synthesize, um, any kind of sweetness or femininity or modesty modesty seems kind of like. You know, a false, a false concept to me, the older I get, but a humbleness, um, mm-hmm with claiming, uh, power and, and claiming the reward and claiming the success. Not even so much for myself, but.
As, you know, you know, I have a teenage daughter.
Amy: Right, right.
Melissa: And I have lots of friends in their twenties and thirties and, uh, you know, either in real life or on social media who are, uh, you know, a decade behind me, mm-hmm, uh, in their starting their business. Right. Or in their professional goals. Yes. And their financial goals.
Mm-hmm and I would like
Amy: to model. uh,
Melissa: success and power and achievement in a, in a confident way, in a way that projects, um, I did this and you can do this and, and you're entitled to mm-hmm so, absolutely. That's kinda, those are some of my, sort of off the cuff thoughts about power, but, um, I've been having a power, um, conversation in my head for a while now.
Mm-hmm , mm-hmm like, I'd like to synthesize. Maybe my external persona with my. External achievement.
Amy: Right? Right. Yes. You're you're so right. I love that you framed it that way because they're not synergized yet. They, they, they are kept rather separate. Yes. You've you've really to a great job. Com compartmentalizing, you have all these bows and packages and they're not, they haven't blended together yet.
Yeah. I'm not
Melissa: just about flowers and NA. Right. although that would be fine with that.
Amy: where do you come up with the nachos part?
Melissa: Oh, because like that's funny feeding people and yes.
Amy: Maintaining and right, right, right. Um, yeah, I think
Melissa: left to my own devices. Mm-hmm um, I, I would do a lot of the things that I achieved success.
Um, through anyway, mm-hmm , which is, which is, uh, connecting people and making things and creating things. Right. Right. And whether it's making a garden or making nachos or designing, uh, my own home decorating and designing my own home, or whether it's creating a website and a brand and, uh, a campaign mm-hmm or mm-hmm, a communication strategy for a client.
They aren't that D. it's just somehow I think, as a female, as a woman, as a creative, I'm more comfortable with the conventional, um, things that are
Amy: expected of me. Right, right, right. Well, that's how we're conditioned though. Yes. And, and as you were talking, I was thinking about all of the variables are the same in, in regards to, um, how, how we were raised.
Mm-hmm um, what we've been told, um, what our perception is of ourself, whether we have confidence, whether we lack confidence, whether we, um, have high self worth. Whether, you know, there's all these things and I really wanna be clear on, on the word power, uh, because it could be, it could be interpreted in so many different directions and there's different kinds of power.
Right? Absolutely. So what is the power then? What is the power we're talking about? What, what is it for you? Um, I think. I think that we're
Melissa: distilling it down to personal power.
Amy: Okay. Okay. I, I think so. Mm-hmm
Melissa: you correct me if I'm wrong? Mm-hmm but I think when we talked about what is today's conversation and today's conversation is about power.
Um, it goes back to that, um, really the only power you have is your response to stimulus. Yes. Yes. You know, that, that. Where you don't have a lot of control over what happens to you. Mm-hmm but you have all the control of in how you respond to it. Right. And that's where we take our
Amy: power. Yes.
Melissa: Yes. Um, and that's where we claim our power and that's where power grows and power, I think from there, when you move outside of.
Internal power. There's certainly external power in our culture. Mm-hmm , you know, I mean, that's given to us by, uh, you know, privilege by wealth. Yes. Uh, that's also taken by achievement. Uh, you know, there's all kind of different ways to accumulate power sort of in a, in a larger, uh, cumulative way. Mm-hmm , but it starts with you and how you respond to things.
Right, right. Per your personal power. I. , you know, do you take control over your schedule? Mm-hmm and what you eat or do you take control over your relationships and what you say? Yes.
Amy: Yes. Yeah. And I, and I think this comes back to, at least from my experience is our, where we're at in our, our age group, our generation, um, I didn't have this awareness a couple years.
yes. You know, I D I did not have, I, I was definitely getting here. Mm-hmm , um, I definitely displayed some of these characteristics, uh, but not the clarity that I have today. Oh. And it's so hard to
Melissa: teach. We're really resistant to these lessons. I kinda laugh like both you and I sent our kids to this, uh, elementary school that had incorporated the seven habits.
Yes, yes. And so this kind. Conversation about where your power lies, you know, the, the it's in the popular culture. Uh, it's in the self-help, uh, literature, even our elementary school adapted, uh, you know, the seven habits where they were gonna teach it to them young. Yes. Yes. But I don't think you can unteach hundreds of years of societal expect.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my kids can repeat back to you the seven habits, but are, are they really able to implement them without the life experiences where they come in handy? Yeah,
Amy: exactly. How is a third grader gonna, what is it? So see, so I don't know. I obviously didn't remember seek first to understand you said that yes.
Seek to, okay. Now that I can, I can get on board with that one. Right. But do I see my fifth grade boy doing that? Absolutely. You know, right. But you're so right. I, so in theory, that's a good, that's good.
Melissa: I was really just comparing us to third graders because it's taken us this long. It's so true. Um, see these things with clarity.
Mm-hmm uh,
Amy: and power's a big one. So I I'll tell you one of the reasons that, um, that we're talking about. This is, um, since I resigned from my other, my other work in October, I've been seeing clients and working with some pretty, um, high level. High functioning, very successful, um, by society standards, people, um, which is a whole, whole new population for me.
I'm, I'm used to working with a whole, whole different types of populations. And I'm, I'm mentioning that because even, um, people who have these high educations on paper or from, from the, from the street view, they're very successful. okay. But it seems to be a theme where they still have a hard time feeling like they have any kind of power in terms of speaking their truth.
Speaking with intention, letting people know how they really feel. And these aren't just. People that I'm talking about. These aren't strangers, these are spouses, these are kids. These are coworkers, they're parents. And, and that's part of where that gap is of a, of a person that, um, maybe not, doesn't feel that type of, um, ability to, to speak the truth because they don't want to.
Hurt somebody's feelings or they say, oh, well, it doesn't matter because they're gonna say this, or they're gonna do this. They're so concerned with how that other person is going to react or respond. So they keep that quote unquote power or that truth inside. Right. and it's really, um, alarming, to be honest.
Yeah. It's
Melissa: eyeopening. It is. I mean, I know we were using myself as an example, but I see it all the time. Mm-hmm and I certainly have clients that have, um, more responsibility, more power, more wealth, uh, more influence than I have. And I think. Walking the line and only claiming, uh, what's acceptable for you to claim mm-hmm or meeting the expectation of others.
Um, no one is immune to that. I think that, I think that that straddles all economic and, uh, racial and socioeconomic and cultural and class. Yeah. Uh, N none of us are immune to
Amy: expectation. yes. Oh, well, I mean, do we wanna talk about expectations
Melissa: because I have a whole, yeah, that's a whole other conversation.
Amy: That is, yeah, that is, I mean, expectations. That is really a whole other podcast, to be honest, but there's, but there's a
Melissa: huge expectation around power and feeling powerless or claiming power mm-hmm and who is entitled to it. Right. Right. And I. I think I can speak for both of us when I say when we decided to open up our friendship and our conversations in a public way.
It's because, uh, we want to empower.
Amy: Yes,
Melissa: that is true. We wanna take our life experiences and our knowledge and share mm-hmm mm-hmm and, um, for better or worse, we'd have these conversations with her without an audience. Right, right. Um, but it's just kind of a gut feeling that. more than just you and I need to hear this well,
Amy: so let me say that if anybody, um, is familiar with the 12 step program.
Okay. Mm-hmm the 12 step is about basically sharing what. Has been freely given to you sharing with other people. Mm-hmm okay. And so really what, what I hear you saying is it's about giving back what was given to us in a lot of ways, right? I mean, not that things were quote unquote given to us, but. In, in, in a lot of ways, I feel a responsibility to, to share me too, you know?
Melissa: Right. And that's probably part of what it is and whether it's given or whether it's earned mm-hmm , mm-hmm knowledge, um, is for
Amy: sharing. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. And it's our experiences now, here's the thing it's not about. Us, you know, talking about, well, this is how I feel. So this is how you should feel.
It's not about that.
Melissa: No. You know, it's giving, um, it's giving others permission and
creating
Amy: space, right? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. So, so one of the things, when I think about the word power, since we keep talking about this in a sense of my own, okay. Mm-hmm or your own, um, For me, it's, it's, it's realizing that I have choices today.
Okay. Up until late last year. I, and, and still in that space. I did not feel, um, that I had a lot of choices now, again, we there's so many different rabbit holes we could go down. Um, but from a professional standpoint, um, my previous, um, work boy, I felt so, um, disempowered, I mean, and part of that was because of the relationship I had with, with my boss at the time.
But here I am this strong. in my mind, you know, empowered woman. And I am feeling so little, right. And here I am on the side, on my side hustles. I'm empowering all these other people, but why am I not doing it for myself? And why did I let it go on? As long as I did? Oh, I,
Melissa: I ask myself that question all the time.
Mm-hmm and you know, whether it's, um, dysfunctional client relationship or whether it's trying to get my kid to pick up his laundry. Right, right. Uh, why do I give up power? Why do I acquiesce? Um, you know, why do I tolerate things that I don't need to tolerate? Mm-hmm mm-hmm so, um, and I do think, you know, I can't speak for men.
I can't speak for all women, but I do think that this is a women's issue. That, um, you know, we're not exactly encouraged. Yeah. , that's so true. Take power to have personal
Amy: power. Yes. Yes. You're so right.
Melissa: You know, uh, really in our culture, at least the culture that I grew up in, uh, was absolutely encouraged to be agreeable, right.
To be accommodating. Yeah. Yeah. To, to, to be, uh, pleasant mm-hmm mm-hmm um, and, and, and sometimes in order to. Take charge it's it's not pleasant. No,
Amy: it is not pleasant.
Melissa: You make hard decisions. Absolutely. You have to disappoint people. Um, and, and, and I think the more you do those things, the more you grow that muscle a hundred percent and, and the more you realize.
That sometimes disappointing somebody can be reframed
Amy: as just telling the truth. Yes, yes. Yes. Because if we speak with intention and we speak our truth, it's not our responsibility on how that other person is gonna react. No, it is. We don't have any control over that. That's all part of this whole understanding.
Now, if I were to come to you and be a big jerk and, and say horrible things, I, I owe you an apology. Absolutely. I'm gonna be like, I am sorry. I was just like a complete jerk about that. But if I come to you and have a hard conversation and, and say X, Y, and Z, and I'm saying these, because this is my truth, right.
That, that is all I'm responsible for. Right? How you respond, how you react. That's on you. what
Melissa: you said is, is worth saying over and over again, because it doesn't always feel like that in the moment,
Amy: correct? It doesn't
Melissa: feel like that's your responsibility. Mm-hmm um, and the more you take that responsibility of telling the truth yes.
And telling your own truth, the more you grow that muscle and the more you realize, oh, this is why I'm here. Right, right. I'm not here to accommodate. I'm not
Amy: here to please. I'm here to tell my truth. Mm-hmm
Melissa: mm-hmm and I do think. , you know, even in the smallest ways, like when you, um, when you don't ask your stylist to put in an extra highlight, or when you don't ask the tree trimmer to cut that extra branch, like really, really tiny things that they add up and they add up and they add up over time where.
I don't wanna inconvenience you. Yes, yes. Um, so I didn't get what I paid for, or I didn't stand, uh, for what I deserve. Mm-hmm and that sort of hacking away at yourself.
Amy: takes a toll. It does. Cuz then you're going back home annoyed that the tree's not trimmed or your hair's not done or why would I pay
Melissa: for this and not get what I expect to?
Yeah, yeah. You know, or when I hire, you know, I'm in a business where I hire a lot of freelancers, um, And many, many times I have employed somebody who didn't meet my expectations and I would accept the work at 75 or 80% of, uh, the level of quality that I expected. And then I would stay up late getting it to the a hundred percent okay.
Line.
Amy: Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa: Because it was easier for me to deprive myself of sleep or my family of my time. Mm-hmm then to say, listen, you were paid for a job and this doesn't meet my expectation. Right. And so, um, I don't think I'm alone in this, not at all. And I know I'm not alone in no this, but, um, it's, it's, it's worthwhile to have the conversation and to tell our truth
Amy: about.
Well, how many wives do you know? That will just say I'm, I'll just do it. I'll just clean the floor. I'll just do the laundry or I'll take care of it because I'll
Melissa: just eat whatever you want or I'll just watch another basketball game.
Amy: that's true now. That's that? I agree with that. But in terms of, of really just doing it, because it's easier for them than to just speak.
Okay. And to say no. Yeah. You know, so that, that goes into, uh, and I certainly didn't come up with this phrase, but no is a full sentence. Yeah. So let me repeat that. No is a full sentence. now how many text threads or social posts or conversations have you had with your girlfriends? Where now maybe it's different, cuz we're a lot closer.
Some of our other closer girlfriends, if you ask me something and I say, no, mm-hmm , I'm gonna be like, oh I, no, because X, Y, and Z. But how many times have you been on these threads or had these conversations where a mom will say no, because I gotta get my kids. I gotta go to the grocery store. I gotta take a kid to dance.
I gotta. All these things, they're giving us the reason why. Yeah.
Melissa: They feel that we are entitled to an explanation or they
Amy: have to explain themselves. Right. But if, if, if, if there's a man on a thread or something, no, thanks for thinking of me. Right. Not even thanks for thinking of me. Right. You know? No, thanks.
I'm not able or not even responding. I'm not trying to, to disparage men here, but for some reason, reason women feel they have to overexplain. And so how is this tied into the power? when we feel confident in ourselves, in our decisions, we don't have to explain ourselves. We stop doing that when you start
Melissa: taking your power back, right.
Power is really rooted in
truth.
Amy: Yes. I love
Melissa: that really, really have felt this. Um, I know we're not a political podcast and, um, but I really have felt this at different times with different elected officials. Mm-hmm that oftentimes the candidate that I'm most comfortable with. Yeah. Is the one that I feel is telling the most truth.
Yes. Yes. That's a, that's a place of power of honesty and truth and integrity. Yes. It's, it's hard to look at yourself and, and look in the mirror and say, you know, this is actually a question of my integrity. Yes. My not taking power is not just niceness. This is a lack of integrity. Mm-hmm if I'm accepting, if I'm accepting less than.
Or, and sometimes not even less than other than what I want. Um, I'm not being truthful. I'm not being true to myself. Right. And I'm not modeling true integrity for others. Right, right, right. And I, I do agree with you that this is something that really, uh, I, I mean, maybe you and I are just on the same timeline and maybe there's a bunch of rock stars out there that are getting this at 35, but I do think there's something about 50, this mid.
point that I'm, that I'm at. And that you're at where it just starts to. It just starts to, you know, the curtain opens up and all of a sudden it's about, I wanna be my true and, uh, authentic self. And you know, I'm doing a lot of shit. That's not, really reflective. Yes, yes. Of who I am or what
Amy: I wanna be.
Right. Why you here right now with that being said, that doesn't mean that then behind curtain, number two, we have all the answers. No, because there's a lot of unlearning. Yeah. What we have
Melissa: learned. Yeah. Maybe rather than, uh, uh, the analogy of a curtain opening up. It's more like a little crack in the door.
right, right. It slam shut all the time. I like that. Every once in a while I get a glimer of. Oh, yeah, you really shouldn't have agreed to that. Yes. You have no desire to do
Amy: that. Right. Right. Right. Now I, I wanna say one more thing, cuz we're gonna, we're gonna start to wrap things up, but I, I wanna say this, that, um, the words I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm how many, how many times do you hear people say, oh, I'm sorry. oh, I'm sorry. You know, ah, I,
Melissa: I'm a pathological apologizer you are, you are.
Amy: And I, I think I'm bringing that, cuz I know that you are, and I know there's so many people that apologize.
Melissa: It really takes the sincerity out of it is where I've come.
Mm-hmm to land of. Um, it's a, it's a knee jerk reaction for me. Yes, yes. Yes. If I sincerely apologize to you, of course
Amy: you will know. Right, right. I will be crying.
Melissa: Mm-hmm , that'll be your first tip off. Yes. That it's coming from a genuine openhearted place.
Amy: You are truly sad about it and, and truly. Full, but to say, I'm sorry, um, with, oh, you know, I'm sorry, I it's disempowering.
It is, it is that that's all tied to it. The I'm sorry, the, no, you know, there's all these different, there's all these different again. I know I keep going to the word variable, but that's part of just being in school right now and in research. Um, but it. These are things that we wanna start to practice. So, so, you know, it's how do we, how do we talk about, well, how do we apply this, right?
How do we put it into real life? So, so one of the ways that we do this is by. Saying no as a full sentence. Mm-hmm and not apologizing. No. Okay. I'm not advocating. Yeah, no apology. I'm not advocating. Um, to never apologize. I'm that, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, is just these little, oh, I'm sorry.
That knee jerk insincere apology. Yes, yes. To be aware of those, right. To be aware of those. Um, and, and to be mindful that. Well,
Melissa: and as, you know, as a therapist, and as I know, uh, from somebody who's been in therapy that, um, that's really related to people
Amy: placing yes. That, that,
Melissa: that so true. So true that apology making is all tied up in your history and your law and yes, and not real great coping
Amy: skills.
Right. Which, you know, we're gonna talk about that as well. Um, because the thing is, is that we can talk about these things. Um, but what we, what, what I know you wanna do, what I wanna do is is we wanna be able to provide, um, tools. And this is all part of the giving back where, okay. So I know for example, let's just say, I, I, I don't know how to say no.
So I find myself doing these things that I don't wanna do. Um, and so. How do I start to reframe my thinking and how do I start to, um, say no, uh, with, with my truth and without explaining and not feeling guilty and because there's so many things attached to these things, and, and this is all part of how really we've gotten to this point now, does it mean we are fully evolved and we have all the answers.
Absolutely not. Um, but this is all part of us, uh, just knowing really what works, you know? So I, I say to, to, um, especially younger people all the time with students I've worked with, is that one thing I can honestly say is I know what doesn't work. yes. You know, thinking, oh yeah, I got this down. I'm gonna do it.
And it goes completely sideways. It's nothing what I thought it was going to do to be, so I know with, with a hundred percent certainty that I know what doesn't work for me. And, um, and saying no, and not apologizing when not necessary. I know those, those work for me today. Yeah. And so I'm keeping those, those skills with me at all times.
Those are and practicing them and practicing them. Yes. Putting 'em in your daily rituals. Yep. And, and I know you, and you are definitely getting better at the nose. Yep. And, um, not apologizing, um, cuz you know, that. yeah, I call you out when you
Melissa: do it. I've say I've been saying some big nos in 20, 20 and 2021.
And I have a CR I have kind of an inkling that there's some gigantic catastrophic nos on the horizon life changing. That's exciting. So, um, I've been practicing. I've been getting better. I encourage everyone yes. To say no.
Amy: Yes, yes. Yeah. And, and just knowing. That even though in that moment, it is super hard.
It is not easy. We know it's not easy, but I'll tell you once, once I've gotten on the other side of that, no, I'm like, whoa. Yeah, I can do this. This is, this is good. Yeah. This is a good thing. So just know that it's all part of your evolution. It's all part of the, the growth mm-hmm that is deserving of us, you know?
Yeah. So,
Melissa: and this is for another conversation. I think we've kind of talked, uh, enough today on this subject. But no is also the beginning of negotiation because I like that until, you know, and I, I see this a lot now in business, but it works for relationships too, until you know what your absolute nos are.
You can't negotiate a better position. Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm . And so I think oftentimes when we need, no, we try to negotiate a compromise. Well, if you meant, no, you meant no.
Amy: Right.
Melissa: Right, right. So if it's, if it's yes, I wanna do this and no, I don't wanna do that. You gotta get those lines in the sand before you start the
Amy: negotiation.
That's true. That's true now. It's and it's not just. Uh, from a professional standpoint, either it, it can definitely be from a personal, um, of what those negotiations look like and how they feel and how we navigate them. Right. So, um, I'm really glad that we talked about this though, because we know that this is something we can talk about, and this is a big one.
It is, it is. And we'll definitely. Revisit it, um, with, with, um, some different spins on it because, um, it's, there's, there's so many ways to, to look at this, you know, um, what we talked about today is the, the personal empowerment. Um, but we, we, we're gonna talk about, um, what that, that power looks like from an external, um, from an external view.
Uh, professionally and personally, and as women cuz that's a whole other, that's a whole other bottle of wax, right? I'll be here. All right. Sounds good. Thanks Melissa. Thanks
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