This is our passion project

This is the episode where the rubber meets the road. 

In this episode, Amy and Melissa talk about “the itch” to try something new, something more meaningful, something with purpose. Amy and Melissa detail their professional backgrounds and how they see their complementary skill sets coming together for The Kindling Project. 

After years in their respective careers and on the cusp of becoming empty nesters, it felt like there was something more they wanted to be doing. It was time to prioritize their passion project. One of their goals is to give back while intentionally supporting and empowering other women to do the same. Essentially creating space for other women’s ideas and ambitions while providing fuel and fanning for that tiny fire inside for all of us.

Learn more about The Kindling Project at our website: https://www.thekindlingproject.com/ and join our Facebook group for women looking for that extra kindling to start their next big fire! The Kindling Project - Ignite. The Kindling Project is sponsored by Memora, an experience design agency that creates memorable brand experiences. Memora is offering our listeners a FREE 30-minute brand consultation. Schedule yours now.

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• Transcript

  Melissa: 0:10

  Amy and I are back discussing our professional background this time, last time, the first time we ever recorded a podcast, we gave you a little insight into our personal relationship and our personal background and some of our interests. I know we probably meandered around a bit, but today we would like to discuss our career credentials. You know the stuff you put on LinkedIn.

  Amy: 0:37

  Yeah. So thank you. Welcome back everybody. Melissa and I had a lot of fun in our episode one. As she mentioned we're going to talk about our professional experiences. We decided that we wanted to discuss this. We think that it's important to give you some background on the work that we have done, we both have a pretty rich history of experiences in our industry and it's exciting in a way, looking back now from 25 years, which is hard to believe, really. When I'm working with clients, I say I've been a social worker for close to 30 years. I don't know when that happened. That really happened overnight.

  Melissa: 1:18

  I am with you a hundred percent. I feel I was just choosing a college or just leaving college and starting an internship. So let's start back there. Why don't we start with you, Amy?

  Amy: 1:28

  This was when I really became very interested in social justice. The activist was born in me, this was the early nineties, it's so interesting, here we are today with the same type of issues. Same type of social issues; black lives matters, LGBTQ rights equality, me too, all this stuff. Still the same concerns from back then. What ended up happening was I got very involved in social justice.

  Melissa: 2:00

  Nice.

  Amy: 2:01

  That's what I majored in. So then you think what does one do with those two degrees? You got to go to grad school.

  Melissa: 2:08

  Yeah

  Amy: 2:08

  If you want to do anything. I grew up with that type of environment of service work. My mom had been to a Martin Luther King March in the south side of Chicago back in the sixties. It was definitely in my blood to be part of things like that.

  Melissa: 2:25

  Where did you go for your master's?

  Amy: 2:27

  Wayne State University in Detroit, and it was an incredible experience. I had about three years between Olivet and Wayne. The year I graduated, I was offered a job from a state Senator. His name was John Schwartz. I met him right at the end of college. I was asked to be the student speaker. We had a new library built. I was able to sit next to Senator Schwartz during this dedication. He asked if I wanted to come to Lansing and spend the day with him. I had told them about my interest in politics and how I had worked on some campaigns. So, I got in my Volkswagen Bus and drove myself to Lansing I got to spend the day with Senator Schwartz and he was just an incredible mentor. I ended up working for him for about a year and a half in Lansing.

  Melissa: 3:19

  Nice.

  Amy: 3:19

  Yeah. He offered me a job after that. I got to spend some time on the Senate floor and it was just so exciting to do that.

  Melissa: 3:27

  That is exciting

  Amy: 3:28

  Yeah. So he was a moderate Republican. At the time, he was the only physician in the Senate. He definitely had a moderate approach to things. He was fiscally conservative but it was a big deal for me because I came from this mindset fresh out of college, I had started a national organization for women chapter. I had worked there for a summer as an intern in DC. I was so pumped up about women's rights and here I am going and working for a Republican, God forbid.

  Melissa: 4:01

  It's nice to have insight.

  Amy: 4:02

  So yeah, it was a great experience, a really good experience.

  Melissa: 4:06

  You left that work to go pursue the MSW.

  Amy: 4:09

  Yes.

  Melissa: 4:09

  And a big part of your career after the MSW was social work.

  Amy: 4:14

  Yes, absolutely. I've been in the field of social work for over 25 years now. The City of Detroit was really remarkable in terms of experience. I had two years of graduate school and each year I was placed in an internship. My first internship was the Lula Belle Stewart Center. It was a teen parent program I wouldn't call myself naive, but definitely did not have the life experiences in terms of what was to come over the years. I was very young. I was 23. What was great about this program was the young women in the program wanted the service. It makes it easier for the social worker when working with a population that wants help. It was very humbling work because a lot of these young women, teens had limited, family support, transportation, financial, education, things like that. My job was to find the community resources that were out there. I did that for a year. Doing home visits is really important, I think for all social workers because being in the front lines where the population that I'm working with, to know where they're living, it really can make a world of difference in terms of how to meet their needs.

  Melissa: 5:34

  Oh, I bet. On paper look like we have very different kinds of backgrounds because you have this education and professional training in social work and I have always been in art and design, and now I own my own design agency, but a lot of my clients have been in the space that you're in. Some of my biggest clients now are foundations and nonprofits that fund social services programs. So we have more overlap thanI would have thought.

  Amy: 6:03

  I love that. I love that you just tied those two together. You've always had that thread of creativity, of art, that's always been a common denominator for you.

  Melissa: 6:14

  Yeah.

  Amy: 6:15

  I'm so impressed with that It's just, it's so intriguing. Really, you're so talented.

  Melissa: 6:20

  Well, thank you. I really admire you as well. I had a drive to be an artist that's really how I've always seen myself as an artist or a creative. Very early on, I was drawing and I was painting, I was helping my grandma rearrange her furniture. I was picking out paint colors for my bedroom or for my friend's bedrooms. I just had this sort of designerly and artistic bent from the beginning. I had really wanted to go to art school and didn't really find the support and resources to do that. I ended up a liberal arts degree and like yourself did a civic- oriented internship right out of college. I did an AmeriCorp program. I think that was a Clinton initiative to get college students work experience in the civic space. My first internship was in government. I worked for the Oakland County Executive's Office. At that time, it was called the Office of Arts, Culture and Film. I think now it's the Office of Cultural Affairs. I curated a gallery in that building and I helped arrange for some juried art shows from which art was purchased for the juvenile court building and other court buildings. So permanent collections for our county and our state, of art. So that's where I started. From there I worked in an gallery. Then I moved into museums and spent about a decade doing design and development of science center exhibits and children's exhibits and art oriented and design oriented projects.

  Amy: 7:56

  So I just want to go back for a minute to the courthouse. So when you curate, does that mean you're seeking out artwork to put into a particular location.

  Melissa: 8:08

  Correct. I believe, it was so long ago, but I believe the year that I was there, the exhibit in the executive's office, the architecture of that building had something called the Galleria, which was a two story open kind of plants in the middle.

  Amy: 8:23

  Yes.

  Melissa: 8:23

  If you envision, those kinds of seventies buildings, there was a lot of wallspace. There was always an art exhibit and they were done bi-monthly. I curated those and they had themes, they were community-based. The call to entries often came from local arts centers, high schools women's groups, photography groups. I curated those exhibits as well as I organized juried exhibitions. A juried exhibition is when you have well-known jurists, either professors or artists or art buyers or art dealers sit on a jury and a review, a call to entries, and then select pieces for the exhibit. Twice, I believe, we juried exhibits from which permanent collections were purchased. There was a new juvenile courthouse at that needed art work. The court buildings and the rooms where there was mediation, or attorneys would meet with clients, social workers. It was a very specific kind of art for what's often a traumatic environment.

  Amy: 9:37

  So you did think about those things?

  Melissa: 9:39

  We did.

  Amy: 9:39

  That's what I wanted to ask you. That's so cool.

  Melissa: 9:42

  Yeah. So we definitely had an overlay of social work associated with that sort of art selection. When you were talking about working for government, working for a Senator right out of college, it rang my bell. I don't think of myself as being that civic oriented, but my first job really was.

  Amy: 9:59

  Yeah, you're so right, because I think about the different environments that I've worked in. I did work, out of grad school, in the Wayne county prosecutor's office and had the incredible opportunity to work as a child advocate in the child and family abuse bureau. Thinking about the trauma because oftentimes I worked with kiddos who had either experienced witnessing homicides, who had been victimized from physical and sexual abuse, really tough stuff. Thinking about the artwork in these different environments, now, honestly, I cannot remember the artwork at the building where I worked. I can only imagine. It was down at the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice, for our listeners who are not from the area, Wayne county is the largest county in the state of Michigan. I would think that there would be work there.

  Melissa: 10:53

  There probably was, although sometimes those environments are little dusty. I've been in some of those environments where it's photos and portraits of former judges or that kind of thing. So some of the stuff that we did was specifically geared towards creating an environment.

  Amy: 11:10

  Mmm hmm

  Melissa: 11:12

  That kind of stuck with me. It's interesting how you look back on a 25 year career and realize that some of the earliest experiences left a mark on yourself.

  Amy: 11:22

  Yeah.

  Melissa: 11:22

  In that case, that idea of creating an environment really stuck with me I went from working in galleries to working in museums and museums are very much environmental experiences. I now own an experience design agency. We really take an experience design approach. We want whoever our customer is to create experiences for their audience. Whether that's a website or whether that's a trade show exhibit, or whether that's a live event we are coming out of, what is the experience here? Is it a memorable experience? Is it a meaningful experience? It's not just about looking good.

  Amy: 12:00

  Right. Yeah. I love that you fuse mindfulness into that because isn't it always about a connection that you want the audience to have a connection to whatever it is.

  Melissa: 12:12

  Years ago when I started my design agency, this was actually a new theme, but I think in the last decade it's certainly a marketing conversation everywhere, at every level. People do buy experiences. Some of the best brands, for example, Starbucks, maybe, it's about the experience that they created for people, the environments they created Most people got hooked going there in college with their laptop, doing their homework, or meeting their match.com dates there, or some kind of formative experience.

  Amy: 12:44

  That's a good point.

  Melissa: 12:45

  That is an important thing for brands. I also work with a lot of nonprofits and foundations that are providing grants and services and that's another level of experience creation. When you were saying that it's important to have, as a social worker, to have clients that want the service, it has to be a compelling life experience. I think sometimes when when things fall flat, it's because the intentions might've been there, the money and the resources might've been there, but it's not a compelling experience.

  Amy: 13:14

  Now, do you think that, more so than ever, that people want to feel connected because there's so much disconnect from technology? I don't know, this is my thinking.

  Melissa: 13:27

  I've seen this approached in different articles, books and Ted talks over the years. I think specifically for our generation, Gen X-ers are more about experiences than goods.

  Amy: 13:38

  Okay.

  Melissa: 13:39

  When surveyed, they would rather buy an experience, whether that's a trip, or a massage, or a class, than a material good.

  Amy: 13:48

  Mmm hmm

  Melissa: 13:49

  I don't know if that goes across every socioeconomic group and every generation, but there is a move towards that, and I think, it just keeps going up, as you go down in generations. I think millennials feel that way. I know you and I are raising a bunch of Gen Zers.

  Amy: 14:05

  Yes.

  Melissa: 14:05

  I think definitely, they do seem to seek experiences.

  Amy: 14:09

  Yes, yes. I love that you brought that up. I know for me, I tend to be, not melancholy, what's the word I'm looking for? Sentimental, I am super sentimental. I've come to the conclusion over the last few years. I know for me, for example, if you know me, I am the biggest Bob Seger fan.

  Melissa: 14:31

  I know.

  Amy: 14:32

  In the universe. Okay. I'll call it the galaxy.

  Melissa: 14:34

  You named your dog Seger.

  Amy: 14:36

  Right. So for people who are like, who's Bob Seger? I'm going to guess that all our listeners are familiar with who Bob Seger is but I will say, just as a quick side note, he's from Detroit. I grew up listening to him from my uncles, my brother and sister and I, all his concerts, just die hard from the beginning. My point in telling you this story is that, that's an experience, when I hear Bob Seger, he can, that music can take me back.

  Melissa: 15:03

  Right.

  Amy: 15:04

  It's such a peaceful, happy time even if, maybe at the time there wasn't some joy, I will always, and I say this truthfully, I will identify joy with Bob Seger, so it's the experience is what I'm trying to say. You're right about that, it's the experience.

  Melissa: 15:22

  I think that's really true, when you look back on your life, not to sound like an old lady, we got a lot of time ahead of us, but, when I look back and when I talked to others, my friends and family that are looking back, it's those transformative experiences, whether it was the music or whether it was your college, or a trip that you took. I was a foreign exchange student in high school and that was a hugely transformative experience for me to go to Japan when I was 17.

  Amy: 15:45

  Wow.

  Melissa: 15:46

  I feel like just wading into this podcast pond, this is another kind of experience that, you know, I'm looking to scratch that itch for us.

  Amy: 15:55

  Yes. Yes.

  Melissa: 15:57

  I feel that we can get so busy with our daily lives, that we're not creating new experiences. It's that monotony, of raising the kids and doing the work, being in the marriage, and paying the mortgage. I think there's a lot of us that are itching to create new experiences.

  Amy: 16:14

  Yeah. Yeah. Because at least around here, people go to Florida at spring break, or kids go to camp in the summer, or they go up north. It's all this kind of predictable stuff. That's probably one of the reasons that we're drawn to one another, because we always know that one of us is going to be up for something different. I'll be able to rope you into one of my crazy ideas.

  Melissa: 16:33

  Of course, I appreciate that, the crazier the better for me.

  Amy: 16:36

  The predictability, there's something to be said for it, but it seems that as we are continuing to evolve, we're ready for different things. I love how you call that the itch. There's the itch. Have you ever seen that image of cows when they have scratches on their back? In the barns, they have these huge brushes. Now, I'm sorry for all my cute cowboys and cowgirls out there cause I know I'm destroying the description, but they have these big brushes and the cows can just back up and scratch their backs and move. If they, especially, if they got 'em on their butts or whatever they scratch. That's what I feel like we have right now is this big itch.

  Melissa: 17:16

  Yep.

  Amy: 17:17

  To shake things up and to move things. I'm glad we're doing this together. Why is it important for our listeners to know about us professionally, educationally. Why do you think that's important?

  Melissa: 17:30

  I'm not a huge credential person, in general. I have a LinkedIn profile and you can look me up. It's not that I'm not proud of educational or professional accomplishments. I think it is a shorthand for people. If someone were to say, oh yeah, I listened to this podcast with Melissa and Amy, if they can shorten it to Amy as a social worker and Melissa is an entrepreneur with a design agency. I think it's a useful shorthand to figure out, where are they on my spectrum of what I know about and what I don't know about.

  Amy: 18:03

  Yeah. I like that you put it that way. Oftentimes we think that there's such differences, but just even talking in this podcast, we're realizing some of the common denominators that we've had from years ago before our paths even crossed, in terms of the civic duty. You're in a profession where you can be very successful with a bachelor's degree.

  Melissa: 18:26

  You can. You can. Now I'm one of those weirdos who never stopped going to school, even after I completed a bachelor's degree. I've done a ton of post-grads work. Just continuing to study my craft. I've taken architecture classes and graphic design classes and photography classes and interior design classes. Then recently I did the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses program. I don't know if you've heard of this.

  Amy: 18:53

  Tell us about it because it's very impressive.

  Melissa: 18:56

  It's a national program of funded by Goldman Sachs. It's small businesses all over the United States and it's like a crash course MBA. You have to already have a successful business. I think in my cohort, which was run out of Wayne State University there were probably businesses in the hundred and 50,000 revenue range all the way up to like maybe 4 million. I'm guessing. I think they've had people in cohorts that had 15 or 20 million revenue. So small businesses is a relative term. Although I think most of the business would be considered small businesses, entrepreneurs, partnerships. We had a restaurant owner, we had an architect, we had a retail owner, we had a design We had a print shop, so those are the kinds of businesses that were in my cohort. Goldman Sachs, made this commitment after the economic collapse.

  Amy: 19:49

  Okay.

  Melissa: 19:50

  I don't really recall all of the parameters, but they committed to educating 10,000 small business people across the United States.

  Amy: 20:01

  Wow. So 10,000 small business owners?

  Melissa: 20:05

  10,000 small business owners.

  Amy: 20:06

  Wow.

  Melissa: 20:07

  At the expensive of Goldman Sachs we're put through this sort of crash course program. It also creates a huge useful network of small business people.

  Amy: 20:18

  Oh my gosh.

  Melissa: 20:19

  We had some amazing We went to DC and I listened to speeches from Warren buffet and just really famous business people mentoring us.

  Amy: 20:30

  Yes, yes.

  Melissa: 20:32

  It was cool. It was a great experience. I recommend it to anybody who can qualify, who has a small business, because so many of us that started businesses, I think at least small business people I know, especially women and minorities, we fell into the business, not because we were business people, because there was something else we wanted to do. We weren't getting the opportunity, either through our regular career, or we didn't like how we were being managed in the regular career. We took it on our own shoulders to create our own opportunity. Just because you're a good designer or you're good at baking cakes or you're good at running a restaurant doesn't mean that you're good at running a business. I'm super grateful for that education opportunity.

  Amy: 21:16

  Yes.

  Melissa: 21:17

  I never took those courses in classes. They weren't part of my art history degree. I didn't think that I would ever need that. I didn't think that I would ever be interested in it. Now I'm hugely interested in it.

  Amy: 21:30

  You've created this incredibly successful company over the last 10 years. This isn't just some rinky dink small business.

  Melissa: 21:39

  It is a small business. To me, the big accomplishments are that I've been able to build a business with the people I love and respect, almost all women, designers and writers and developers. We've been able to pick and choose some of our projects.

  Amy: 21:55

  Now's the time where we create space, for the tiny fire inside that needs fuel and fanning. Today's kindling is about our itch or our dream. All women, we have this. We have this drive, this passion inside. So how do we start to really move forward with this dream, this vision. First thing we do is we have to own it. We validate it. We don't deny it any longer. We tell a friend. We write it down. Create a vision board. We post it online in a group. Melissa and I invite you. to the kindling project ignite, our online private Facebook group of women supporting women. How are you going to listen and scratch that itch?