I can do anything attitude
Mel chats with Pam Mack – a successful entrepreneur and author. Pam discusses the power of our inner voices and the impact of careless comments.
Pam shares her experiences building multiple businesses successfully, reminding us to pursue our visions and not let others dictate our path.
In this episode, Pam shares:The importance of using our voice to uplift others, particularly young people
Valuable insights on staying true to yourself and achieving your goals
Building an approachable and sustainable law practice.
Her positive, grateful attitude, always asking, 'Why not me?'
Be inspired and motivated by her "I can do anything" attitude.
Pamela-Denise Mack is a highly accomplished attorney and leader. She is the founding and managing member of The Mack Law Group, PLC, where she specializes in corporate/commercial transactions and legacy planning to provide invaluable counsel and advice to businesses, business owners, and their families. In addition to her successful legal career, Pam is an author, blogger of The Nosy Lawyer™ blog, and the Co-founder of the award-winning Detroit-based Bricks 4 Kidz franchise. Her extraordinary accomplishments have been recognized with her selection to the National Black Lawyers Top 100 list and several awards. Driven by ambition and success, Pamela continues to make impressive contributions in her professional and personal life.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenosylawyer/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/nosylawyer
Facebook: www.facebook.com/themacklawgroup
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pameladmack/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@themacklawgroup
Book Store for My Name Is Judah: https://doulospublishing.squarespace.com
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[00:00:00] Melissa: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Kindling Project podcast. I am thrilled today to welcome my friend and fellow Goldman Sachs grad from Cohort nine, the Best cohort, and I recently joined a business mastermind with her. I'm in Noble with her and I just all around love and admire Pamela Mac. She is founder of the Mack Law Group, co-owner of Detroit Based Bricks for Kids and a children's book, author of My name is Judah. Welcome Pam. How are you today?
[00:00:28] Pamela: Hey, Melissa, great to connect with you. Good to see you again.
[00:00:33] Melissa: I know I had the good fortune of seeing you twice in one week. It's hard in the summer to keep all your obligations going and with so much up in the air. So I feel fortunate that we're getting to have a second chat. So let me tell you guys a little bit more about Pam's bio. During Covid, she started another business, the Mac Law Group, which specializes in high value small business clients. She deals with their business needs, their personal [00:01:00] needs, their legacy planning. Tell us a little bit more about Mac Law Group, Pam.
[00:01:03] Pamela: Yeah, so I'm really excited to tell you about our firm. So we started in 2019 right before the pandemic. Because of my background the goal was to come out and help business owners to negotiate their contracts and, you know, put them in the big leagues with the experience that I had working for large companies. Well, COVID hit. The pandemic hit and everyone was calling not for business contracts unless they were trying to get out of them or figure out how they, you know, maybe you know what, provisions still remained during the pandemic, but mostly about estate planning. People had, you know, they watched a lot of things happen around them and said, Hey, Take a look and make certain that I get my business in order. So we went from the Mac Law group that minds your business with corporate transactions, real estate, IP, and data privacy to [00:02:00] minding your business and minding your legacy, which includes the estate planning. We are Bloomfield Hills based and like you said, we work with business owners and their families.
[00:02:11] Melissa: That's awesome. Pam has also recently been selected to the National Black Lawyers Top 100, a distinction awarded to top black attorneys in each state. And she's been featured as an executive in Court Business Magazine, and she's the past recipient of New Business of the Year Award for the National Association of Black Accountants. She's been featured on P B S, American Black Journal and she's just such an impressive person. The idea that she can start and scale multiple businesses, I just think of her as this can-do person. Like whenever the challenge shows up, whether it's C O V I D, whether it's business problems, whether it's legacy problems, she's just there with like, why not me? So, tell us, did you always wanna be a lawyer? I kind of read that your mom always wanted you to be a lawyer.
[00:02:58] Pamela: She did, she was that [00:03:00] mom that, you know, could really take a look at her kids. You know, there is a saying that your kids will tell you who they are. If you watch them, they'll tell you who they, you are, right, who they are. And if in my mom's case, she was always like paying attention to our gifts and talents. And so she starts speaking into my life very early. Well, you're gonna be a lawyer. Oh, button, she used to call me, button's. Gonna be a lawyer. And it didn't matter that, you know, I graduated from undergrad with a business degree and decided not to go into law school. She continued to say, I believe you're gonna be a lawyer. And sure enough, a couple years after graduation, It was time to think about grad school and where to go next. I mean, I have my business degree, but I have no interest in getting an M B A, so I just, I guess I'll just go to law school and do what my mom said, so, yeah.
[00:03:51] Melissa: Well, you had told this kind of charming story about how you used to watch the legal shows with your grandma. So maybe even before your mom planted the [00:04:00] seed, something was going on there and I thought it was just so cute and sweet that what you really liked about it was the big desk. Right, the big best in the authority.
[00:04:09] Pamela: I did. You know, it wasn't, it was never the courtroom. So I am not a litigator. I don't even, you know, if it whispers of courtroom, we don't handle it because I'm a transactional lawyer. So what I liked about, you know, the shows that you rarely see is the lawyer sitting behind the desk shuffling papers. I could just see myself, and I literally, you know what you. See in your mind's eye, it is amazing how it can come to pass. And so, yeah, I love being at a behind a desk and negotiating deals and moving papers around and so as evidence in my home office, it's just, yeah, it shows.
[00:04:51] Melissa: Isn't that the truth though? It's really how you see yourself and it's the seeds that people plant at a young age that come to fruition even when you buck 'em [00:05:00] and you try not to have them they show back up for you.
[00:05:03] Pamela: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I'm so careful in what I speak into my son's life. You know, what you say as a parent, you know, and to your children's life. It is, it has so much more meaning than you think it does.
[00:05:16] Melissa: Yeah. Well, and you had some people plant. Sort of, some negative seats. You said there was a college professor that was very negative about lawyering at one point.
[00:05:24] Pamela: You know, that's really such a great reminder to me about what happened to me. I was a freshman and always again, always said I was gonna be a lawyer and she made some offhand remarks. I won't say specifically about what she said about lawyers and lawyering and things like that, but she was such You're an impressionable, 18 year old, and what she said made me think, oh, well, I maybe need to consider a different career. So it literally took me into a different career path. I'm glad that, you know, the words that my mom spoke and [00:06:00] just my own desires kind of overtook it, but, That was years later. So again, you know, I always say to people you don't even realize as an older person when you are, when you have an audience of young people, how impressionable they are. Like you just think you're making an offhand remark and that could literally change the trajectory of their life, you know? Right.
[00:06:24] Melissa: Absolutely. That stuff sticks with you. You know, if somebody tells you that you can run fast or you're a bad singer or you look like a lawyer or you don't look like a lawyer, this kind of messaging it sticks. It sticks. We had a guest on recently princess Castleberry. She's a fantastic public speaker and coach, and she talked about how when she was in her early years of corporate America being told you don't look like corporate America. And just how much that hurt and how much that offended, and also really kind of riled her up to be like, I'm gonna show [00:07:00] you what corporate America can look like and I'm gonna stick it out here even if I don't look like everybody else, so that there's at least one person who looks like me at the table.
[00:07:09] Pamela: Right. And you know, the other thing too is, you know, as we're talking to young people, you know, at the same time, you know, as we're talking to adults, to be mindful of what they speak into young people's lives, it's so important to as parents, as mentors, as you know, aunts and uncles, to really impress upon our young people that if they have a vision for their life, That's really what matters. Of course, you take wise counsel, you always take wise counsel, but if you have a vision for your life, that's what's important. Nobody else gets to determine for you how you live your life, you know? So to instill in them this sense of self songs, strong sense of self, so that they can walk in the rooms where people may not feel like you belong in that room to say, no, I, I know where I'm going. I have a plan for my life. [00:08:00] I have a direction in which I'm going, I understand you're an adult and I can take in what you're saying and I can go and filter it through wise counsel, but at the end of the day, this is the plan I have for my life.
[00:08:11] Melissa: Do you think you had that confidence at a young age, or do you think you acquired it over time?
[00:08:16] Pamela: I think I acquired it over time. You know, I think as you get experience, as you as you get to know yourself a little bit more, you get to understand your capabilities and, you know, I come from a family of very confident individuals. My dad was an entrepreneur. He was one of the top in his industry, in every industry that he pursued. And my mom has always been an entrepreneur and was very confident in the things that she could accomplish. And a lot of times she, you know, as I was growing up and I had doubts and she would just kind of look at me like, Are you kidding me? You know, you've got this, you got that, you've got, you know, your education far exceeded mind. What's your deal? You know, what's your problem? And so, yeah, I mean, I think with [00:09:00] anything, you know, it grows over time. You get to understand your own capabilities. The more success breeds success kind of thing, you know? We still go through, I think as adults, we still go through those doubts and insecurities. I mean, look, for goodness sake, I started in a law firm, you know, three years ago. And so that takes some level of, you know, going back into my experience to say, okay, you've done some things before. This is something that you, so just a quick story. My dad has always been the entrepreneur of entrepreneurs. Like he could sell anything. He was like extremely talented, identifying emerging markets, things like that. Always really successful. I never thought that I could be a successful entrepreneur. Seriously. I mean, I just did look at me now, like years later, but I always wanted to, you know, I always worked for, you know, corporations, large corporations could go in there and I'm good. I got this salary. I'm good. I don't have to know bookkeeping. I don't have to, you know, do this other stuff. I don't have to actually go out and do [00:10:00] anything to make this happen. I could just go up, I can go into the, my office and make, you know, to earn a living. And so the idea of becoming an entrepreneur, Just was like an offense to me. No no, I'm not doing that. But again, you know, you go through life, you get experience, you're like, oh look, I actually can do this.
[00:10:18] Melissa: Well, and I know knowing a little bit about you personally, like a lot of Gen X women, you faced some challenges of going through a divorce and becoming a single mother and I didn't go through a divorce, but motherhood really made me look at entrepreneurship as an opportunity to maybe control my schedule more and maybe balance work and kids when they were little and work from home, or, you know, it, it did mean I spent a lot of late nights and weekends working, but then maybe I could go to the Halloween party in second grade. Right. So that was one of your deciding factors as well, I think. Right?
[00:10:50] Pamela: Absolutely. So Melissa I had prayed a very long time when I was married for a child I really wanted, I'd always wanted to be a mom. [00:11:00] And so it just came a little bit later and prayed a long time. And so, yeah, I got this, you know, so God blessed me with this beautiful little boy. And I happened to work about 25 miles one way from where I lived and then another 15 miles, another direction to go and pick him up. And so my daily commute was, you know, sometimes 16 miles a day. And, you know, great position as in-house counsel because you can manage your schedule. Unlike my ex-husband, he could not manage his schedule. Litigation, you ,gotta do what you gotta do to get ready when you get an emergency litigation. So we had this household where I could kind of manage my schedule, but I was driving like crazy. And you know, so days when he could, you know, was scheduled to pick up Jeremiah, he might not be able to, et cetera, et cetera. And so I, you know, one day, [00:12:00] picking him up from school. I can remember it. I was like, do you have Jeremiah? It was snowing. And he was like, no, I thought you were gonna get him. And so I ended up having to, we quickly call the school and, you know, with the latchkey, so, you know, he stays after school and it's snowing. And I thought Richard picked him up. Rich hadn't. And I get there and my little guy is sitting on the bench with his thumb in his mouth. And I said at that point I was like, Lord, this is not why I prayed for this child to have him, you know, in school after school, last one picked up sitting with his thumb in his mouth. And so that really changed the trajectory again, this word that I can't I pronounce, I keep wanting to say it, right. It just changed the course of my,
[00:12:52] Melissa: I dunno why that is. You just slip up on it, right?
[00:12:55] Pamela: Wanna be this word. I just wanna keep saying that word. It just changed [00:13:00] the course of my career in my life. And so, and it all works out, right? It all worked out and so I took, I was really, I thought, Okay, I'm gonna go get a job working as the chief operating officer of a company. My skillset is gonna be, you know, the type that would be attractive to anybody. Again, you gain that confidence when you start to realize whoa, I've done a lot of stuff for this company, so I thought I was gonna find a position close to me, and it just wasn't happening. And so as it turns out, and so I guess this is gonna kind of be a segue into how I ended up starting for kids with my business partner. I was like, you know, my kid likes to play with Legos. And so I happened to come across this franchise that who's, you know, had a combination of Legos and STEM and not only did it serve, so they, the company Bricks for Kids, the franchise teaches kids STEM using Lego bricks. [00:14:00] And I said, what great way to be able to spend some more time with my kid and at the same time be of service and a blessing to my community because the types of activities and educational exposure through this franchise just was not available at the time in Detroit. And so we launched Bricks for Kids and did super well, and we're still, you know, it's still a business of mine. I'm a part owner now and just kind of working more in the background as we're ending our franchise. But wow, what a great opportunity. So I got to get up every day and take care of my kid and have him, you know, act like he's this, the co c e o, and run the camps and things like that.
[00:14:48] Melissa: That's so cool. See, and this goes to my, this goes to my point that I was making up front, is that you just seem like a person who just jumps in, right? You just, you know, whether it's corporate America, whether it's the law firm, [00:15:00] whether it's a franchise about STEM education. And then on top of that, you wrote a children's book kind of inspired by Jeremiah. Do you wanna tell everybody about this? I mean, we kind of focus here on a guest that have an amazing kindling project. And then I think about you, Pam, and I'm like, She's got a bunch of kindling projects. She's got she's got these like sparks and fires all over the place. Right. Tell everybody about how you also wrote a children's book.
[00:15:26] Pamela: Yeah. So, you know, again, and I, you know, it sounds like, oh, well, you know, just, hey, just jump in and okay, there's this, there's, you know, a lot of prayer and consideration. There was, you know, leaving a job that people covet in the legal industry to kind of launch these things. It is never easy. There's a lot of tears and a lot of ring and a lot of, you know, consideration. How is this gonna impact? But it's a risk, you know? So it, it wasn't easy. It was, look, you know, it was painstaking, but again, it, it's sort of my [00:16:00] philosophy in life is if not now, when, right? If not me who? And so, even with the book, and so, looked around, well, the kind of, the story is every year my church at the beginning of the year, we go into prayer and it kind of starts the year. It enables us to kind of set some vision, you know, goal through prayer. And I come up from prayer one day and I was this whole manuscript just kind of hit me. So I just kind of wrote it down. I wrote it down like very quickly. You know, this idea about a little boy who has a unique name, who has four friends and they sing and they talk about his unique name, right? So I write it on a little eight buy 11 sheet of paper, put it in my office drawer. Didn't give it much thought. I'm like, I don't know what the heck, how the heck do I start, [00:17:00] you know, write a book. Not like now where everybody can self-publish and there are all these, you know, wonderful tools that you can use. I had no idea how I was gonna do it. And then as Jeremiah started to, he's my son Jeremiah. As he started to grow, I started to look around in on bookshelves. I'm like, where are the, you know, again, Jeremiah has lots of books. He has a book by Spike Lee, you know, at that time, had a book with Spike Lee and others. But I did not see on the covers of books, my baby's a brown boy, right? And so I didn't see it on the shelves, and I was like, I sure would, you know, this would be kind of nice. And so I started to go about, Thinking okay, I got this manuscript. How can I do this? So we, I created this book called, my name is Judah, which is a really fun project. I already had the manuscript. I just went out and found the, you know, the illustrator and someone to help me to pull the whole project together. [00:18:00] And so it is, it's a book called, my name is Judah, which Judah in Hebrew means praise. And so it's all about this little boy who has friends. He has friends that are, you know, he has an Asian friend, a Caucasian friend, a Hispanic friend. They go about, you know, discovering his name and enjoying themselves. And it was really important to me to have a book that was both multicultural and it just really resonated with my community. They loved it. I would just put little postcards around and people would just start buying it. So, yeah. Another project.
[00:18:36] Melissa: Another project. Yeah. I think that's very inspiring for other women that are, you know, maybe they have a book idea or maybe they have a cause like representation or, and so many women do have a successful career, like your corporate career. I can relate myself of, you know, I have had a design agency for 12 years and it's gone through its different phases, but you [00:19:00] know, we have a lot of longtime clients and it's very successful and I'm proud of it and I'm proud of the work. But something happens at different points of your life where you get an idea or you get, you know, you have a little spark that there's something else for you. And that's what I wanna be here for, is to encourage those little fires, those little other things that we haven't gotten to yet. And that's what the Kindling Project is for me. It's my kindling project of talking to women about what else? What else have you got in there? Because I feel like there's a lot of sleeping beauties that, you know, they're going through life and maybe they're doing well, or maybe they're struggling, but there's something else for them that they're afraid to get to. And I think your inspiration of just get to it. Say your prayers, put it in the drawer. Wait till the time comes. But don't let go of that information that comes to you or tugs at your heart, right.
[00:19:55] Pamela: Melissa, I'm so excited that you're doing the Kindling project and you just don't know. You know, sometimes [00:20:00] you're just like, okay, I got this idea and I'm gonna run with it. What a blessing to be an encouragement to so many other people. I know who your target audience is, but to see other people, because sometimes listen. Sometimes we just need to see other people and say, well, they did it. I can do it too. Right?
[00:20:21] Melissa: We tell ourselves, oh, they did it because they're special, or they're privileged, or They had more support than I did, but I find over and over again, that's really never the truth. They just did it. They just took the chance. Right,
[00:20:36] Pamela: right. I remember when I was young, my mom put us into a school district, which at the time was like one of the very top in Michigan, if not in the nation. Very well known for educating really, you know, talented people. And so I would come home and I was like, you know, mom, these kids are talking about world events. I mean, that was before YouTube, before, you [00:21:00] know, 24 hour news. I mean, they were basically like, like how do they know about Nixon's what's going on with the, you know, Watergate goodness, grace, she's little kids, right? And so I remember when I would come home and I would say that, 'cause that was, you know, in my mom's mind, me being intimidated like, I don't belong in the school district. I don't know, these kids are super smart or whatever. And she would always say to me, she said how many eyes do they have? And I was like, two. She said, do they have a nose? Yeah, they have a mouth? Yeah. Ears. Oh, do you have those things? So what are you talking to me about? Like it was just you can do it if they can, if they're smart, so are you. Like, what are we talking about? You're wasting my time here. Like she would just say, you're wasting my time talking about comparing yourself to these other kids who you think are smarter than you. And I would just say this to your audience, you know, of people who think, you know, they may look and say, oh, she's a lawyer, or she's listen, [00:22:00] the whole world, you know, all these really talented people. You'd be amazed at their backgrounds, they just said, someone else did it. I can do it as well. You know, and I kind of, you know, that's kind of how I live my life. Hopefully I'm instilling that in jeremiah.
[00:22:14] Melissa: Oh I'm sure that you are. I'm sure that you are. And it's really kind of a fake it till you make it. You don't have to feel the confidence every day. Some of the most successful people I know don't feel the confidence every day. They just keep doing it. They just keep walking. I'm sure there were some hard lessons along the way. Are there any kind of things that you picked up that you'd like to share with our audience? What would you do different or what are the pitfalls to pursuing a kindling project?
[00:22:41] Pamela: Advice that I received is, you know, very early in my career that I think has really suited me, served me very well. I would always make excuses about not turning in. I did pharmaceutical sales for a very short period of time before I became a lawyer, and I always worked with [00:23:00] the, I had to work with my district manager and I could never turn in my reports on time. I just didn't. I just never, they were never on time. And so every time that I would meet with him, He would say, Pam, why are your reports late? And I always had an excuse. And one day I'll never forget, we were sitting in the car and he just stopped when I was, when I made an excuse. And he said, you know what? He said, Pam, the next time I ask you and you don't have it, he said, take ownership of it and do something about it. So instead of giving an excuse, just say, okay, I acknowledge that they're not done, and I will do better. And let me tell you how well that has served me in my life. So it was embarrassing, but at the end of the day, you know, it's all about growth, right? And so years later, when I became an attorney, Probably about a month into working for my general counsel. He came in, he was really [00:24:00] angry with me because I dropped the ball on something, right? And he was like, you know, he could tell, he is oh, you know, great guy. One of the best people I've ever worked for. But he was really upset about it and I listened to what he had to say and I remembered what this district manager told me and I said to him, I said, Tom, I dropped the ball on that one. It will not happen again. And let me tell you that has served me well because what it did was it disarmed him because people are not accustomed to working with people or interacting with people who take responsibility. I think our human nature is to make excuses like, oh, you know, or even lie about things. And so, And that has served me really well. It served me with clients because look, we're all gonna make mistakes. Everyone's gonna make mistakes because no one is perfect. You do the best that you can. If you drop the ball, just say, [00:25:00] Hey, I dropped the ball. I will do better. I think that goes so far. It raises the level of Respect, I think that people will have for you if you say that.
[00:25:11] Melissa: Like honesty and vulnerability to say, you know, look, we all make mistakes and I make mistakes and I'm doing, you know, I'm doing the best I can or I'll do better. I think it it sort of levels the situation. 'cause it's not like he never made mistakes. Right.
[00:25:26] Pamela: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, same thing with clients, you know? We don't like to, I mean, particularly lawyers, you know, we, you know, a lot of what we do people's lives hang on it, right? One mistake, one misfiling, things like that. So I think that you, what you do is you work as hard as you can to bring the expertise that you have to the table and double check and triple check, check it, right? But again, we're all infallible and I think that my clients have a lot of respect for me. I'll tell you exactly, you know what's going [00:26:00] on. I'm not gonna make excuses for things. Right. So. Yeah I think that's one of the biggest lessons that I've learned and advice that I guess I would give other people bring your authentic self, but let your authentic self be a person of integrity. Right?
[00:26:14] Melissa: So what's next for you? I know that you have, I know you have the blog, I know you have the business. Is there anything you're promoting or any kind of special thing that you're doing now you wanna share with our audience?
[00:26:25] Pamela: I'm growing this law firm. I'm growing this law firm. We're adding associates and you know, eventually my vision for the firm is, it is for it to last beyond me to have a attorney, associates and other partners in the firm. And so that is my concentration. Listen, you can be, You know, you've heard of the Jack of all trades, the master of none. That's not what I wanna be known for. I wanna be known for my expertise in the law. My son is, you know, of age right now, I'm still running around with him. He's quite talented [00:27:00] as an athlete. And in other things. So I'm doing, you know, I'm spending life with him and running around and going to track meets and concerts and things like that. But our main focus right now is growing this law firm. We wanna, you know, spread the word that we're here for business owners that are in their inception, business owners that are getting off the ground, they've reached a point where they feel like they really could use that you know, contracts, of course, all entrepreneurs. Everybody needs an estate plan, and I think what we're doing right now is getting the word out about how estate plans don't just relate to trustfund babies right? everybody has to plan because we're not gonna get out of here lot. Right? And so making certain that both the businesses that we are creating and the families that we are creating that there's some protection. Like we are taking care of those that we love upon [00:28:00] disability or death. So, We're just getting the word out. You know, we're continuing to write our blogs. Our blog is called the Nosy Lawyer, right? And the reason we're called Nosy Lawyers is because we wanna get to know our clients, not because we just wanna be nosy about their business. We wanna know who you are. We wanna know about aspects of your life that could impact your legacy, right? Corporate law tends to be kind of perceived as a little bit stuffy. You know, sort of like the guys just get together in the conference room with the white shirts and bow ties or ties and, you know, women, you know, we're in that space now, but traditionally have not been in that space. Even more so for minority women. You know, we represent a very small minority of lawyers in this space. And so, just wanna make our presence known. And then two, because you have to have such a relationship of trust, we want to make ourselves approachable, [00:29:00] right? So that our clients feel comfortable with saying, Hey, Pam, just, you know, question for you. I know you're handling my contract, but. What's going on? You know, this is going on in my household and we need to kind of look at this as well. So can you help us? So we wanna be approachable so that these conversations can be had.
[00:29:19] Melissa: I love it. Well, I'm so proud of you and I'm, I can't wait to watch you scale. I think that you'll have to come back and have another conversation with us about scaling. I think that's a whole other kind of kindling project because it's building a business and then it gets to a certain point, and then how do I scale it? How do I grow it? How do I get myself out of it in a way that it runs when I'm there and when I'm not there, or for the next generation? So.
[00:29:43] Pamela: Yeah. Well, I hope that we are gonna have that conversation. You know, you and I belong to several groups. I definitely don't, you can come and talk to me in a couple years. Some of the other CEOs in our group would be much better suited to talk about that. You know, that's why you're in community with people, right? [00:30:00] So that you get to really benefit from the lessons learned from others that have been in, been at it a little bit longer and certainly successful with it. And I'm just so, really honored that you invited me to come melissa. I've always liked you so much and,
[00:30:16] Melissa: we have these boys that are the exact same age and we had them at I don't know, our advanced maternal age. You know, there's that whole thing about being the older mom on the playground and being a business woman. And so I just think we have a lot of overlap and so thank you for coming and talking to our audience.
[00:30:33] So one thing we'd like to do at the end of these is we'd like to give a shout out to someone. Is there anybody that you can think of this week or this past month that you'd like to share? Little atta a girl. atta a boy. Shout out to?
[00:30:49] Pamela: Oh. Can I do two? Okay. I wanna say shout out to my son, who has worked really hard on the [00:31:00] track field to improve his scores and to get accepted and qualified for the a U Junior Olympics. I'm saying that because he's worked so hard and I'm so proud of him. The other person I wanna put a shout out to is my mom. Right. So you've heard a lot about her. She's such an important part of my life. She, she took a fall recently and she had to have brain surgery. But her sheer tenacity and determination to get better has, you know, in a lot of prayers, have resulted in her recovering quite nicely for an 81 year old who had to have brain surgery in February. She is a remarkable person. I have watched her, you know, go from having to relearn to walk, to having to walk on a walker to ditching the walker, to going back to, you know, really pushing to go back to a normal life. And Just [00:32:00] shout out to my mom.
[00:32:00] Melissa: Aw.
[00:32:01] Pamela: Super proud of her.
[00:32:01] Melissa: She's a superstar. I wanna be your mom when I'm 81.
[00:32:06] Pamela: Ah, me too.
[00:32:08] Melissa: Oh yeah, I think you will be. Okay. Well, I'm gonna give a shout out to our mutual friend Linda. That's, we we were at her, gosh, we were at her home earlier this week. Linda Schlesinger Wagner. She's The founder of Skinny Teas, and she's been a podcast guest here before and she's in our online community, but she's really a great example of bringing women and men and business owners and community together, and I know that's what you and I care about, and she's just a shining shining light in that arena.
[00:32:41] Pamela: She just makes you feel like, she's just a wonderful person. I think that the lesson that Linda teaches all of us, as busy as she is running that very successful business, she always takes time out to give back. I mean, I just, [00:33:00] she's a remarkable person and she's just a testament to, as you give you, you know, it's always gonna come back. You really do. Yeah. So that's my third shoutout
[00:33:11] Melissa: okay. We'll share her today. Well, I hope you have a fantastic weekend. It's so nice to see you again. Come back anytime and to everybody listening to the podcast and who's in our Facebook group the Kindling Project, ignite. You can find Pam there. You can find her law firm. She's an amazing resource so.
[00:33:32] Pamela: Thank you so much Melissa, and congratulations to you and your team for launching such an important and. Growing successful project. I'm so proud of you.
[00:33:44] Melissa: Oh, thank you.
[00:33:45] Pamela: Thank you so much.